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MaseratiForumMaserati CarsMaserati Chat A plea to BIRDCAGE

A plea to BIRDCAGE

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2/9/2009 17:46:39  
 

Posts: 366
Since: 3/7/2009
Status: offline
Without naming and shaming a dealer and without giving our reasons on the forum why can't we have a score board for indies and main dealers? Perhaps something along the lines of score out of 10 for customer satisfaction buying a car through a dealer, aftter care satisfaction, satisfaction when having a car serviced through a particular dealer, value for money etc etc???

Dealers seem to be a bone of contention and it would be extremely helpful to many here to be able to review these scores when making a decision to buy a car or get it serviced?

Many members up and down the country are at a loss as to where would be the best place to buy a car or where to get it serviced in their area and seeing a high score against a dealer would give some comfort.

The dealers themselves like Emblem for example should not mind (providing they are not rip off merchants) and may even strive to better their performance to their customers to remain at the top of the leader board. What ya think Birdcage???? I know you hate anything contraversial but an idea like this would be popular with many members and would not put you in any legal position as the reasons for marking the score would not be publicised.

Please Please Please give it some thought.

< Message edited by UrbanMaser -- 2/9/2009 17:56:09 >


_____________________________

Past Masters:- Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6, Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6, Alfa Romeo Montreal, Ferrari 308GT4, Mercedes 500SL, Mercedes 380SL, Mercedes 28SE Coupe, Mercedes 450SLC, Alfa Romeo Spider S2, MGC, Marcos 3 litre, Now driving 2007 Gransport LE
2/9/2009 18:17:19  

Posts: 527
Since: 15/5/2009
Status: offline
Seems like a good idea......certainly if there is an problem with naming and shaming over particular issues then names should be withheld until the issue is resolved.

Alternatively, if a ten point questionaire is addressed per experience then it can be forwarded to BC for ratification before being added.......again, only those who score above a certain average are actually recorded on the system, so we only do recommendations and the board is NOT being held to account over those we slate!

Indeed, how do the TV programmes and web other sites get away with being negative or even derogatory about a service provider?

P
2/9/2009 18:29:14  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
Status: offline
Totally concurr and seconded


regards loz


_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

2/9/2009 19:20:20  

Posts: 624
Since: 22/10/2007
Status: offline
The problem could be that there is no pleasing some people who could give a very low score for something very minor to a dealer with an unblemished record. Also the dealer has no comeback, with the feedback on eBay you can at least address the complaint but it's still recorded as bad and that's what people remember.

What's to stop abuse? Have what you regard as a bad experience and post 10 negative things about the dealer, their feedback score falls through the floor... Could limit one scoring per user, but what if you use Emblem for servicing, but Autoshield have helped you out with advice/bits?

Don't see how it can work as a system that cannot be abused. I know we're all good chums here, but only about 30 of us know each other and there are 1500+ users. Pretty easy to register simply to spoil someones feedback if there is some less than friendly rivalry.

We just have to hope people ask questions before buying or servicing and any info can then be passed on via PM. I have an outstanding issue with the crooks who sold me my Aston and there is a solicitor on the case. However I cannot name and shame the dealer on the AMOC forum but lots of people are PM'ing me to find who it is to avoid them.

Complicated issue and I would imagine Birdcage will err on the side of caution - he could end up in litigation over something posted because as the publisher rather than the author, amazingly he is responsible for the content of postings



_____________________________

Lewis

4200GT - Nettuno with tan
Aston Martin DB7 6.0 Vantage Volante
Marcos Mantula GTSpyder 4.6
Lotus Turbo Esprit S3 2.2 - almost finished!
Jaguar S-Type 4.0
2/9/2009 19:21:46  

Posts: 624
Since: 22/10/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Parisien
Indeed, how do the TV programmes and web other sites get away with being negative or even derogatory about a service provider?


Never without prooof - hidden cameras, paper trail etc. Even so, the shows get sued I'm sure if there is any doubt over the allegations...

_____________________________

Lewis

4200GT - Nettuno with tan
Aston Martin DB7 6.0 Vantage Volante
Marcos Mantula GTSpyder 4.6
Lotus Turbo Esprit S3 2.2 - almost finished!
Jaguar S-Type 4.0
2/9/2009 20:11:02  
 

Posts: 575
Since: 29/1/2007
Status: offline
I'm with Marcos on this one, you have to be very careful with what you say and how, I've never "slagged" off a dealer without substantiating it before hand with full documentary evidence. so if anyone wants to know about a dealership on the south cost pm me and I'll send you a dossier!

as for ebay, helen sold some old curtains (cost us £150) sold for £6.50 with £15 postage (for weight) bloody buyer knew the postage cost before bidding won them then complained about the postage price. I tell you, this is why she doesn't let me anywhere near.
2/9/2009 20:34:43  

Posts: 527
Since: 15/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marcos

quote:

ORIGINAL: Parisien
Indeed, how do the TV programmes and web other sites get away with being negative or even derogatory about a service provider?


Never without prooof - hidden cameras, paper trail etc. Even so, the shows get sued I'm sure if there is any doubt over the allegations...


So how does the biggest site, moneysavingexpert get away with 1000s of posters slagging off dozens of providers/businesses without much in the way of proof/recourse?

Also the likes of Tripadvisor (I know there have been problems!!), plus I've left reviews for other bits of equipment, accommodations etc over the years...its like...my exprience/opinion !

We could take extra care in who is allowed to post their info/experience, or indeed have a private message system for those who feel the need to share critical info?! So its not on plain view for everyone nor indeed esp for those who just "happen by" as guests.

Further thoughts people?

< Message edited by Parisien -- 2/9/2009 20:35:28 >
2/9/2009 20:38:29  

Posts: 617
Since: 7/3/2009
Region: Milan
Status: offline
I am also with Marcos and can see the other side of the coin too, that is a bunch of newbies from dealers potentially posting great but fake reviews of services provided. It would be a right mess to monitor.

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2/9/2009 20:51:40  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
Status: offline
Guys this forum is for US                 its not for the dealers   not for the indies   this forum was originally set up as Gavin intended  for like minded owners to help others and enjoy all things Maserati ,  Have things changed      not that i have been informed of   Brian said that he wished to carry on in the spirit of things and improve where he felt things could be , and credit to him he's done that

But the main aim is for the members   the second that changes  people will disappear , everyone new , and those that are members of other forums always say that how friendly helful and informative  the site is , 

Points table has got to be the way to go , we shouldn't really be concerned  for dealers/indies  feelings   they have a sure fire way if they want and have the skills  to prevent any bad scores   and thats by offering   a service  thats is at the very least acceptable  progressing to exemplary   thats it end of

As you say (lewis) sometimes the occasional low score  might be a little unfair in some eyes   but the dealers/indies are tough enough to withstand that and as  long as its not habitual then it wont affect the mean average score    which anyone   with a brain bigger than a peanut will work out   we could even have the mean average as part of the table

All this can be done completely ommitting any reasons /migitating circumstances preventing any legal reprocussions    how about we try it   suck it for a month or two as a sticky in the tech side   and see how it goes    Simples compare the service .com

regards loz


_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

2/9/2009 20:55:29  
 

Posts: 575
Since: 29/1/2007
Status: offline
let's face it, we all know who he good guys and the bad guys are, all you have to do is google or search for them, you are bound to get plenty hits (not that I've tried) on them.

actually the more I think about it, I would use judgement from people on this forum that I know and trust that and league table, if my 1 or 2 bad experiences with a dealer put me off but a league table says otherwise then I may choose to say nothing as it was my own experience.

for example, I've only got praise for 2 of the 3 main dealers I've used over the past 4 years, some people have not had the same experience, but I know that I will not be ever buying from the 3rd no matter what. last year they had the car I wanted and I couldn't bring myself to trust them. I would not even allow my car to be taken to them for urgent repairs! even after the offer of a free service.

< Message edited by robbiemac -- 2/9/2009 21:04:07 >
2/9/2009 21:15:48  


Posts: 2135
Since: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
To be fair those of us who are more active tend to recommend readily,I have never made a secret of my Views on the excellent service provided by Emblem looking after bothe the Spyder and the Ghibli. Bill McGraths did good work on the Ghibli too when Rich owned it outright and took it to them for geographical convenience. My local Main dealer became expensive...to be fair they kept coming back with lower rates but too late I already moved my allegiance to Emblem. Nothing to slag them off for and the then service manager is gone hey ho!

As for a league table...I don't think it would work and even if there was the opportunity for the service agent to respond to negatives they won't want want to be dragged into the mire.

We have been fortunate and only a couple of times had "issues" arise from newbies with an axe to grind or other over enthusiasms. Any new owner doesn't have to trawl far on the threads to get an idea of who is good and who is not. If they ask they will get straight answers as ever.

Unfortunately whilst Gavin wanted to keep the Forum neutral this was not financially viable, the current compromise with our sponsers is negligible and whilst I wouldn't necessarily use all of them I have no negatives it is just my choice.

We still seem to police ourselves quite well and as Marcos says there is the nucleus who meet from time to time...open to allcomers and free discussion.

Just my thoughts / ramblings!

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"Maser Malc"!!
4200 Spyder CC
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3/9/2009 1:54:04  
 

Posts: 366
Since: 3/7/2009
Status: offline
Why would anyone vote in a negative way when they have had a positive experience and if they have had a negative experience surely they should be able to vote accordingly?

One or two people may abuse the system but I think the majority of us here are responsible enough to vote on a dealer as we see fit and in a fair way. I do not avocate that we name and shame by saying what our bad experience is but if someone votes say 2 out of 10 I think that is a fair indication that they have had a bad experience and if they vote say 9 out of 10 it is fair to assume they are happy.

If dealers are aware that this voting system is in place they will not want to be at the lower end of the scoring and may pull their socks up and start to give what we are all crying for Good Service.

Many of us have learnt through bitter experience just what a bad dealer can be like. The Emblems of this world will have nothing to fear and can only prosper from such a scheme.

There are so many websites which invite reviews. A review serves to educate others. I recall one post here where someone was charged for something in their service, a filter I think, but it was subsequently proven the part they were charged for was never fitted. Surely, it is a moral duty to warn others.

I know Birdcage draws the line at naming and shaming but I can see no harm in a points system providing it is only a scoring system and does not go into details which could have possible legal impilcations.

_____________________________

Past Masters:- Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6, Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6, Alfa Romeo Montreal, Ferrari 308GT4, Mercedes 500SL, Mercedes 380SL, Mercedes 28SE Coupe, Mercedes 450SLC, Alfa Romeo Spider S2, MGC, Marcos 3 litre, Now driving 2007 Gransport LE
3/9/2009 7:58:35  

Posts: 527
Since: 15/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

only a scoring system and does not go into details which could have possible legal impilcations.
quote:

ORIGINAL: UrbanMaser

points system providing it is only a scoring system and does not go into details which could have possible legal impilcations.


Yup, that could solve lots of potential problems, especially if tied into a seasoned members system
with say 50/100/150 plus posts?!

And if the majority of the seasoned members of this board are already using the the previously recommended garages then it shouldn't be too difficult!

In effect we will be crowing on about the same few garages and new members would soon get the message!

P
3/9/2009 10:23:30  
 

Posts: 366
Since: 3/7/2009
Status: offline
Parisien it goes without saying than there should in addition be a section where we can post all the positives in words of those dealers who have scored highly. This would be a two edge sword - dealers would be bending over backwards to make sure they were included in this elite section and those members seeking a recommended dealer in their area could proceed with a degree of confidence.

There will always be a conflict of opinions, one person finding their dealings with a particular dealer being favourable, and another person finding the same dealer a nightmare. All that though will even itself out in the wider picture of things and reflect in the average scores. This could be taken even further with an annual winner for an average over all catagories ( sales, customer satisfaction, aftercare, servicing). Dealers could actually benefit from such a scheme. Those (and they know who they are) who mistreat customers, sell dodgy cars, offer dodgy servicing etc will ultimately either improve their service or fall into decline.

I have no idea how many Maserati owners in the UK actually are members here but I would bet it is a fair proportion. I would bet that most Maserati owners though have at least visited the site even if they have never joined it. Perhaps the greater proportion do not own brand new Maseratis but lets face it the indies rely on the older Maseratis rather than the newer ones which tend to remain under main dealer umbrella at least for the duration of the warranty.
As far as the main dealers are concerned they will not want to lose sales and servicing to the indies. This is already apparent where a few of the main dealers are offering price matching with the indies when it comes to servicing. The used Maserati market is also important and I'm sure very profitable to the main dealers. They are always anxious to try and keep all of the marque under their control. What is truly amazing is the lack of consistency in the main dealer network. There are some who are quite good and others I wouldn't buy a dead dog from. We need a scheme to clearly point out the good from the bad.

As Loz quite rightly pointed out this site is for us and not the dealers. From a personal point of view and some of my experiences in buying my Maserati and the care of it thereafter I have found it a rocky journey. Yes now that I am a member of the forum and have got to know many of the regulars I have learned an awful lot by asking around. I only wish that I had this information before I decided to buy a Maserati. It would have made the experience a lot easier and certainly more pleasureable. It is not a five minute job to learn what the older members have learned and I just think that if this new area was started and put in a prominent position on the forum newbies and visitors would have better guidance in who to go to rather than what is happening coming here after the horse has bolted from the stable. Many people do not have time to ask the relevent questions and to come back several times before getting an answer. This proposed section could give them immediate answers.

We could all spend more time talking about the positives of Maserati ownership rather than trying to help those who have blindly bought themselves a pup from an unscrupulous dealer.

Needless to say there should obviously be a disclaimer stating this is the view of various members from their experiences and experiences may differ. The ultimate responsibility lies with the individual to make their own decision and that it is recommended to have the car independently checked regardless of who it is being bought from.

COME ON BIRDCAGE PLEASE LETS GO FOR IT





< Message edited by UrbanMaser -- 3/9/2009 11:02:22 >


_____________________________

Past Masters:- Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6, Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6, Alfa Romeo Montreal, Ferrari 308GT4, Mercedes 500SL, Mercedes 380SL, Mercedes 28SE Coupe, Mercedes 450SLC, Alfa Romeo Spider S2, MGC, Marcos 3 litre, Now driving 2007 Gransport LE
3/9/2009 11:47:06  

Posts: 85
Since: 7/7/2009
Status: offline
To add a newbies 2 pennorth - having a list of dealers/garages geographically with (positive only) votes by them would be very useful. I just started a thread asking about servicing, and I suspect it's one of the first things new owners want to know - who's good and local to me?

By positive only voting I mean you just get to vote for a dealer for good service, maybe under a number of categories (price, workmanship, friendliness, whatever). There are no negative votes, so if you have a bad experience you simply don't vote. This would not replace the ability to ask for peoples experiences but would give newcomers a starting point.

_____________________________

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. "
3/9/2009 12:40:35  
 

Posts: 366
Since: 3/7/2009
Status: offline
AxsMan I think the negative scores should be posted too if for no other reason than to make the dealers be aware that dropping their standards will result in negative scoring. Perhaps this will make dealers wake up to the fact that they are being scrutinised.

_____________________________

Past Masters:- Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6, Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6, Alfa Romeo Montreal, Ferrari 308GT4, Mercedes 500SL, Mercedes 380SL, Mercedes 28SE Coupe, Mercedes 450SLC, Alfa Romeo Spider S2, MGC, Marcos 3 litre, Now driving 2007 Gransport LE
3/9/2009 14:30:45  

Posts: 85
Since: 7/7/2009
Status: offline
UrbanMaser. I don't disagree with you. but if 'neg' votes are considered a bit too contraversial, maybe a system based on positive votes would be acceptable, and better than no system at all?

_____________________________

"Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. "
3/9/2009 15:54:37  
 

Posts: 366
Since: 3/7/2009
Status: offline
AxsMan it is all down to Birdcage who I presume by the silence is away at the moment.

_____________________________

Past Masters:- Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6, Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6, Alfa Romeo Montreal, Ferrari 308GT4, Mercedes 500SL, Mercedes 380SL, Mercedes 28SE Coupe, Mercedes 450SLC, Alfa Romeo Spider S2, MGC, Marcos 3 litre, Now driving 2007 Gransport LE
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