MaseratiForum.co.uk
MaseratiForum.co.uk
www.millbrookecars.com

Migliore logo

Logged in as: Guest
   
MaseratiForumMaserati Cars3200GT, 4200 Coupe/Spyder, GranSport Help - HT coils??

Help - HT coils??

[1] 2   next >   >>
Member
Message                                                                                    
31/12/2010 4:19:05  
 

Posts: 27
Since: 22/4/2009
Status: offline 		Hi All, I have been having acceleration issues lately, intermittent i might add. Although it is intermittent it happens every time i drive the car. Let me try to explain. When i hit the gas sometimes there is a lag in power or flat spot, this happens just before the turbos kick in. Then when the turbos kick in i hear a flapping noise, which to me i think may be the gate valve. Other times when i hit the gas she pulls away strong and the turbos kick in and i get a huge grin on my face. I would say it is about 50% of the time this happens. Lately the following has been changed. A contact less Throttle body, spark plugs and one pop off valve. I am thinking that the one of the coils is on the way out, i put new spark plugs in yesterday, after trawling through the service history, they were last changed in 2005. I noticed a huge surge in energy form the car but still i get the flat spot. I am thinking that a coil may be on the way out. What i am looking for is advice on how to check the Ignition coils. I have checked between pins 1 and 3 and I get between 1.5 ohms and 1.6 ohms. between pin 2 and the end of the coil i get OL on every coil. I am sure that i am doing something wrong here, but not sure what. This is driving me crazy, as it is taking the joy out of driving this car. On another note i am very reluctant to take it to the local dealer here in the middle east as the last time i took it there they had me change the oxygen sensors, the TB and the acceleration potentiometer, problem still not solved they then told me to replace the CPU. I had ignition/acceleration problems that were intermittent. I refused and took the car back. I then went over all the electrics and found some water had got into one of the fuse boxes, i then replaced the moldy fuses and she was purring like a kitten. I fierce one i might add. So i will be taking it to the local dealer at a last resort. Your advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks

_____________________________

Keith Hamill
31/12/2010 9:25:39  

Posts: 2479
Since: 27/1/2008
Region: Bristol
Status: offline 		Keith,

Not sure of the problem but there are few re-sets you could try before spending any more money.

There is a 3200 throttle re set listed on here which may help. Also look for the battery re-set procedure. It also be useful to check that the butterflies are opening correctly as your problem seems to be under load conditions.

Best of luck.

_____________________________

Peter

4200 CC
Volvo C70 Cabriolet
VW Golf mk1 Cabriolet
2CV LHD In France
1/1/2011 18:19:26  
 

Posts: 27
Since: 22/4/2009
Status: offline 		Hi, I tried the resets mentioned with the same issues. What i am looking for is information on how to check the ignition coils. If i do take it into the dealer to get it hooked up to the SD2 tester is there anything i should be asking that they check? The last time i was in they were not that confident. Regards Keith
2/1/2011 2:25:57  

Posts: 102
Since: 20/6/2010
Region: Perth
Status: online 		Hi Barry, Where in the Middle East are you? There are a couple of forum members in Dubai who appear to be having some success with a decent local garage and if you do a quick search you should find the user names. Send them a pm and find out who they use. If you're in Abu Dhabi it may even be worth trying the guys in Dubai. Regards, Neil

_____________________________

Leave me here in my, stark-raving, sick, sad, little world...
2/1/2011 11:39:36  

Posts: 208
Since: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		Barry By far the best way is to plug in the sd3 as it gives all sorts of info. Failing that, there are checks you can do on the coils but I am away and don't have the manual to hand to give you the resistance values. The primary side should be in the order of 1.5 ohms and secondary around 5 kohms. BUt ... Some times could breakdown when the get hot! You should work out what's going on by looking at the plugs themselves after a run too. As soon as I get some info I ll let you know Good luck! Bl
2/1/2011 18:07:05  
 

Posts: 27
Since: 22/4/2009
Status: offline 		Hi, Thanks for the response, i was thinking on taking it in to the dealer to get it hooked up to the SD reader. Before hand i will search for other posts about indy's in Dubai as thats where i am located. Bill - I checked out the following link for the coils. It states 0.65ohms for the primary and 8.7K ohms for the secondary. I am unsure if i am measuring it correctly as all 8 secondary are showing OL. I am taking it as pins 1 and 3 are the primary and that from pin 2 to the end that touches the spark plug is for the secondary. As mentioned i am getting no reading on the secondary. I am using a calibrated fluke meter so my test equipment is correct, not too sure about the testing method above though. Thanks again!!!
3/1/2011 11:55:11  

Posts: 208
Since: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		Keith The secondary winding should have a common connection to the primary winding so the 8.5kΩ should be between 1 or 3 and the HT. Again this is what I would expect I don't have access to the manual for a few days to confirm. Cheers Bill
3/1/2011 17:43:38  

Posts: 242
Since: 13/5/2008
Region: Holland
Status: offline 		Resistance measurements will not tell anything about highvoltage isolation leaking during ignition.
I have seen coils that where ok according to resistance measurements, but still doing nothing during running tests.







The SD 2 will tell what is wrong i hope, good luck!

Attachment (2)

< Message edited by boomerang -- 3/1/2011 18:05:54 >
4/1/2011 4:56:06  

Posts: 208
Since: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		Luuk, agreed as coils tend to break down when hot. Never the less from the diagrams Luuk has kindly provided and the values you have Barry, it seems the resistance between 1 & 2 should be 0.65 Ω and pin 3 and HT terminal 8.7ΚΩ Bill
10/1/2011 13:28:02  

Posts: 186
Since: 5/6/2009
Region: Aberdeen
Status: online 		Hi Keith I am not sure your ignition modules would cause the problem you have outlined? If there is a noticeable lag after pressing the go button, this means either the electronics is applying the right conditions on the engine and it does not respond or there is an electronic problem which does not pass on the new demand to the engine. Sticking choke modules in the TB is possible but you have already replaced these. I may be wrong but if the coil modules were faulty you would get either misfires, or more difficult to notice some slight hesitations when idling and driving but not long lags in response I don't think. The test when idling I believe is to remove the coil cover's, then disconnect the coil units one at a time and try to notice when the hesitation stops. It may be worth looking at the throttle pedal potentiometer, since if this was not working the system would not know you had pressed the pedal and so you would get a delay? There is a discussion some where on here describing how you can short the output of the two redundant pedal sensors together to try and prevent problems, this might be worth try? I would try to work out what your "flapping noises" are caused by as this may help work out what's up? Not sure what your flapping noise is like but there cannot be too many things that can cause this, the pop-off valve is a possible. Could there be a problem in the hoses between the turbo and the intake plenum? once you build up pressure from the turbo's the pressure blows open a seal or a hose joint, and releases the pressure? Is the problem worse when the outside temperature is hot? (soft plastic etc. ) might be worth checking all the air hoses and the inter-coolers for cracks loose joints etc? Not sure if any of this rambling helps! Good luck

_____________________________

keepin it running
11/1/2011 11:11:10  
 

Posts: 60
Since: 8/8/2010
Region: Hong Kong
Status: offline 		I had a similar problem of choking under acceleration. turned out to be a unique one. SO I would simply trust the SD 2 or sd3 tester. Does your CEL light come on. If the coil was busted this light should come on.

My problem was a bit more difficult to diagnose.
While working on the car, a mechanic put a glove on the turbo intake hose to avoid it taking in dust and closed the bonnett.

Apparantely another mechanic started the engine to move the car  inside the garage and in the process the turbo sucked in the cotton glove. Took a while to figure it out but finally they managed to remove all the hoses and give it a good clean and car has been fine since.

< Message edited by virendra -- 11/1/2011 11:13:18 >

_____________________________

Virendra
Hong Kong
Maserati 3200 GT 2000 (auto)
Ferrari F360 F1 2002,F355 96 Manual
M Benz C-240 2005
VW R32 06 Manual
11/1/2011 11:42:43  

Posts: 242
Since: 13/5/2008
Region: Holland
Status: offline 		Did you check the bottomplate of the intakemanifold?
Sometimes the srews come out and as soon as the turbo's start building pressure, the boost is lost via this route.
Mine had three or four screws lying at the bottom of the "V".....
18/1/2011 4:13:37  
 

Posts: 27
Since: 22/4/2009
Status: offline 		HI All,

I have just recieved 2 new ignition coils from the UK. Between pins 1 and 2 i get 0.9ohms. Between pins 2 and the coil end I get approx 27Meg ohm. Note the resistance betweeen pin 2 and the coil end starts around 35Mohm, this to me is normal.

The coils i recieved look slightly different from the ones i have installed, the ones i have are BAE 700 AK.

Note this car is over 10 years old and has never had a coil replaced. From the above readings of the coils, it appears that i have 8 faulty coills.

I am still not convinced that this will help my problem. I will check the bottom plate and all the hoses. I have checked what i can from above the engine, I will need to get under to check the rest of the hoses and pipes.

When i push the accelerator sometimes there is a noticable lag, before the turbo kicks in. It is not until the turbos kick in that i hear this noise, which is like a metal flat, possibly the gate valve dropping .

When the engine is good and i accelerate i get a surge in power before the turbos kick in and, when the turbos kick in, the engine accelerates correctly.  It is for this reason that i don't think there is a problem with the turbo hoses etc.

I am not ruling out a problem with the accelerator potentiometer, but i have a second hand used one. I have swaped both over a few times recently and there is no change in the engine. Also from the service history the original in the car is only 2 or 3 years old.

Is it possible that all 8 of these coils are gone and it still sounds smooth at idle?

I am planning to install 2 coils and see if there is a difference.

Cheers
18/1/2011 11:37:02  

Posts: 208
Since: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		Barry,you are messuring the wrong pins. the primary is between pins 2 and 3 and the secondary between pin 1 and coil end. Although.... the diagrams Luuk has put up above are contridicting!! the upper as pin 1 to earth pin 2 to +ve and pin 3 controlling pulse. whereas the lower is pin 1 +ve, pin 2 earth and pin 3 controlling pulse!! take your pick....


18/1/2011 12:52:50  

Posts: 186
Since: 5/6/2009
Region: Aberdeen
Status: online 		i would very much doubt all 8 coils are bad, as the car would not run well at all ever. There would appear to be an intermittent element to this problem? It works some times and not others? This would rather suggest that loose or cracked hoses and bolts loose are not the cause as these would not come and go? I wonder if you are looking for a flakey sensor, like the engine rotation sensor or the cam position sensor? Not sure if these would cause a delay on applying the throttle but they might. The only thing is you would expect the engine management system to pick this up and give you a CEL and a corresponding error?

_____________________________

keepin it running
19/1/2011 18:05:26  
 

Posts: 27
Since: 22/4/2009
Status: offline 		Hi, An update of good news at last. I received 2 coils and installed them on the engine in different configurations until i had exhausted all options. I was then sure that the problem had to be air getting into the system. I dismantled all the hoses from the throttle body to the filter boxes. I then decided to remove the boxes to see if there was any damage to the hard to get to hoses underneath. I removed the box and hoses from the left side first, and noticed that one of the hoses had been rubbing on one of the running pulley's. I checked the hose and it was good. I then removed the right hand side box and checked all the hoses, then ureeka. As i was moving the pipe and hose that goes to the turbo i noticed it was very loose. It actually fell off in my hand. So now that i know where the problem is i need your help on the best way to get access to the front side of the turbos to check the left hand side and install the right hand side hose and pipe assembly. At last i can see the light at the end of the tunnel, just hope there is nothing wrong with the turbo. Your help is appreciated. Cheers

_____________________________

Keith Hamill
19/1/2011 18:42:24  

Posts: 242
Since: 13/5/2008
Region: Holland
Status: offline 		Good to hear you finally found something wrong in the end!
I had to do it once at the righthand side of the engine and in my recollection it was just a nasty job fumbling between a lot of tight/narrow places.
But with the right tools it should be doable.
I do not think your turbo has suffered really.
Hope everything works out ok!
19/1/2011 20:49:17  

Posts: 208
Since: 8/3/2008
Status: offline 		Well done mate! Now for the dificult bit.....I find it takes about a week for the pain to go away from your nuckles.... Good luck
  [1] 2   next >   >>

 
Forum | Section | Top of Page


Eurospares
© 2010 MaseratiForum.co.uk
MaseratiForum.co.uk has no official association with Maserati S.p.A. All associated Maserati logos, names and images appearing on this site are for nominative and informational purposes only.
Banner images are © Copyright Maserati S.p.A./Other Author/MaseratiForum.co.uk, as applicable. Maserati is a registered trademark of Maserati S.p.A.
Terms & Conditions  |  Contact Us