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MaseratiForumMaserati Cars3200GT, 4200 Coupe/Spyder, GranSport I just bought a 3200GT. Problems already.....

I just bought a 3200GT. Problems already.....

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24/12/2011 10:05:59  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 17/12/2011
Status: offline 		(thankfully most are minor) I just got myself a nice 2001 3200GT in back with light grey/beige interior.

I think it needs a few bits of work, and as a competent amateur race car/engine builder in my spare time I thought I'd look to having ago myself before throwing my wallet in the log burner while stuffed with cash!

So I have some questions for which I'll be very grateful of any answers:

Clutch - This only just completely disengages. The plate (where you can see it through the aperture in the bellhousing) looks not to be significantly worn, and there is no slip al all. I hugely doubt it is anywhere near the rivets in terms of wear. (Does anyone know the OE thickness of a new plate?)
So in my initial investigations I looked at the slave cylinder and it appears the clutch disengages when the cylinder pushes. Someone has been here before as there are some marks on the threaded par of the pushrod - around 2 pitches of exposed thread which are cleaner than the rest. My understanding is that because this is a pull clutch the failure arises because finger springs in the pressure plate snap off, thus reducing the degree to which the clutch disengages.

(Am I also right in understanding these broken fingers can fall somewhere and this is also how the flywheel gets damaged? - does not seem space for this, plus the fingers would surely be ejected through the inspection ports in the bellhousing).

So assuming the lever which emerges from the side of the bellhousing has sufficient travel, I think I am OK to further increase the length of the slave cylinder pushrod a few mms? I shall also bleed the clutch hydraulics to be sure there is no air, but to be honest the pedal resistance feels fine.


Suspension - I have an error light. Was on when I first inspected the car, went out after I drove it while, came back on whilset driving at 80 on the motorway. So I imagine I should remove all 4 actuators from the dampers, and check they perform the test when the ignition is turned on. Assuming they do I then look to see if the shaft in the damper turns freely? If one of the actuators does not move, check wrong/swap to a known good corner of the car. Anything else I am missing? And does anyone know if the Corvette part fits/works if I need a replacement?

Engine - Nothing other than cosmetic (for now!) and it needs a cambelt change. Now I can't see much on the 3200 which makes access of the belts a pain, so I imagine a belt change is not that hard a DIY job. Does the 3200 have vernier pulleys which require calibration, or can I just go for a "mark the tooth positions and set engine TDC" approach? If vernier, where can I get the lift at TDC figures - Guess its only the exhaust cams also, which makes the job easier.

Also, as I hinted, the only place the car is let down is in the engine bay where the crackle paint has begun to flake off the cam covers and inlet manifolds as well as the coil covers. I was wondering that if I am pulling off the cam covers I might look at the chains on the other end of the cams - these look in the drawings I have seen, to not be verniers, hence this cannot be much more than lifting the cams and swapping the chain. Any opinions? I have read this is a £2500 job at a dealer, so I am prepared to accept I may have overlooked something.

< Message edited by Sniffer -- 28/12/2011 0:45:38 >
24/12/2011 10:07:23  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 17/12/2011
Status: offline 		Line feeds dont work in Chrome.  Posts edited in I.E.

< Message edited by Sniffer -- 28/12/2011 0:46:19 >
25/12/2011 12:08:51  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 17/12/2011
Status: offline 		Right, fixed the Error lamp. All 4 actuators were working, all damper spindles were free. Put some contact cleaner on the actuator connectors and a squirt of light oil into the actuator. Error light gone out.

Clutch: The adjustment on the slave makes no difference to the throw on the release bearing lever, as the hydraulics compensate. There was a small amount of air in the hydraulics, so things are better now, but there is still 50mm of free travel in the pedal before it loads up. I will adjust the length of the master cylinder (if this does not mess up pedal height - but I think the damper restricts this) to see if I can get more "throw" at the release bearing lever.

All clutch fingers were intact BTW.

Just the belts to do. Also noticed the boot release does not work. All the relays fuses and diodes are OK (swapped with fuel flap). Any ideas?



< Message edited by Sniffer -- 28/12/2011 0:47:39 >
25/12/2011 12:12:24  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 17/12/2011
Status: offline 		Deleted now I figured out the Chrome issue. 

< Message edited by Sniffer -- 28/12/2011 0:48:08 >
25/12/2011 12:13:22  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 17/12/2011
Status: offline 		Deleted now I figured out the Chrome issue. 

< Message edited by Sniffer -- 28/12/2011 0:48:18 >
25/12/2011 12:14:57  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 17/12/2011
Status: offline 		Deleted now I figured out the Chrome issue. 

< Message edited by Sniffer -- 28/12/2011 0:48:32 >
25/12/2011 20:56:35  

Posts: 2479
Since: 27/1/2008
Region: Bristol
Status: offline 		Best of luck with the challanges.

You have already answeared all the points I know off.

_____________________________

Peter

4200 CC
Volvo C70 Cabriolet
VW Golf mk1 Cabriolet
2CV LHD In France
26/12/2011 17:05:39  
 

Posts: 39
Since: 24/6/2010
Status: offline 		Hi

The minimum clutch disc thickness is shown as 8.5mm in the manual. The clutch rod should be adjusted to be 91.5mm from the tip of the rod to the back of the adjustment nut.

There is someone who that sells and manual on a disc for around £12.50 on ebay, well worth the price I have a copy and it has all the details of how to time the cams. Changing the chains looks easy with the engine out, timing the cams looks complicted and would require a pair dial guauges and patients to get it correct, and thus ensure best performance.

Regards

Rex B
Manual 3200
27/12/2011 8:52:02  

Posts: 2479
Since: 27/1/2008
Region: Bristol
Status: offline 		Re the boot, check it is not sitting to tight as they are difficult to open with the key as well. Press the lid down to avoid damage to the key.

_____________________________

Peter

4200 CC
Volvo C70 Cabriolet
VW Golf mk1 Cabriolet
2CV LHD In France
27/12/2011 11:54:46  

Posts: 775
Since: 19/8/2007
Status: online 		There are some misconceptions on this thread as follows:
  • Because this is a pull clutch, the cover fingers fail resulting in a heavy clutch. This is incorrect - A pull clutch is ultra heavy duty and is frequently used on trucks etc to control massive torque. I have not heard of a single failure of this type. Clutch failure on 3200s usually occurs  where the thrust bearing carrier operation is overloaded resulting in the "ears" of carrier breaking. This is usually cause by the carrier sticking on the gearbox input shaft due to corrosion / crud or improper assembly / adjustment of the actuating arm. Both will create excessive load on the thrust carrier and its bearing as well as the crankshaft thrusts. Ensure the carrier can slide without interference and adjust exactly as instructed by the manufacturer
  • There is vernier adjustment on both front cambelt pulleys as well as all 4 rear chain sprockets. The chain sprockets have 16 dowel holes and the corresponding rear flanges of the cams have 15, providing a vernier style of adjustment of 1.5 degrees at the cam (3 degrees at the crank) between each combination.
  • You can change the cambelt using scribed marks but you are then stuck with whatever valve timing errors existed before the change. You cannot correct or even check valve timing errors without DTI guages to measure an inlet valve, an exhaust valve and TDI of the relevant piston, all simultaneously. A prerequisite to checking valve timing is ensure valve clearances are correctly set as any error here will screw up timing checks. I have previously posted more fully with 3 posts on the following thread

    http://www.maseratiforum.co.uk/m_25313/mpage_1/tm.htm#25329   

hope this helps

_____________________________

You can lead a horse to water but you cannot force it to drink
28/12/2011 0:25:25  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 17/12/2011
Status: offline 		Rex, Thanks for the clutch info, I'm at 9.1mm. - Incidently the previous owner gave me one of the CD manuals. Took a while to find all the gifs are appended to the bottom of each web page, but I got there in the end.

Safrane, I'll check the boot latch. I was going to remove the carpet off the lid. I have to remove the rest of the boot carpets anyway as the Error light has returned and now refuses to extinguish.

Nigello, I'll take a look deeper into the clutch. I understand that if the lugs break off the release bearing the clutch fails to disengage at all. I don't think I have that issue.

I think its a mistake using a pull clutch, you can get massive levels of torque capacity from small multiplate clutches. 

I actually think if the issue is not mechanical failure of the bearing or lever arm (I have disconnected the lever arm from the slave cyl and there is no unreasonable play) its got to be at the pedal end.  The piston in the slave also has no limit to its travel, so if the thrust bearing is not returning to its proper initial position, the lever would surely move forward until it hits the edge of the aperture on the bellhousing?


What does appear wrong is here is that there is an almightly range (1,5 - 2" odd) of pedal stroke before the clutch pedal firms up as it it is actually doing anything. I wonder if the master is incorrectly fitted?   I shall play with it further.


Moving to cam timing, I looked at the manuals after reading your post (and discovering how the links on the pages do not work!) and I can now see the exhaust cam slot mechanism, and the exhaust to inlet relationship is controlled using dowels as you point out. I have the dial gauges and can fabricate some jigs to hold them on the heads. I have some experience building and timing up BTTC engines and the princple is much the same.   Access does not look that hard for the chains at the rear of the headsbut I shall delve further.

Interesting info in that other thread. My car has not astonished me with its performance, is modestly quick. Maybe cam timing is the issue, especially if its 7 deg out as you found!

< Message edited by Sniffer -- 28/12/2011 0:56:05 >
28/12/2011 0:28:16  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 17/12/2011
Status: offline 		Deleted now I figured out the Chrome issue. 

< Message edited by Sniffer -- 28/12/2011 0:48:45 >
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