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MaseratiForumMaserati CarsA6G-Merak, BiTurbo era, Ghibli, QP IV Inspection completed, help!

Inspection completed, help!

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30/7/2009 22:55:10  
 

Posts: 53
Since: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Hello all

Went to look at a nice 1996 Ghibli GT the other week (it was only a quick look as weather was bad and I knew that I'd have to get it inspected at a later date).  As I mentioned before there were a few minor faults but the car drove nicely and seemed really good.

I had an inspection done today by http://carinspections.co.uk/ and the verbal report was not too good:

there were a large number of minor faults such as bits of trim loose/lights not working etc etc but also a few more significant ones. 
The inspector was unable to drive the car due to there being excessive play in the steering which he regarded as dangerous (he said some bolts were loose and that there was a large amount of play on one of the wheels when he jacked the car up). 
Other problems included some rust bubbling at the bases of the screen pillars and some surface rust on the bulkhead close to the bonnet hinges.  Am I right in thinking that rust on Ghiblis starts from the inside out and that the rust here is likely to be worse than it first appears?  From what I've read, rust here is a major issue and very expensive to put right. 
Also the inspector found a hole and a crack and some rippling in the rear of the front wheelarch which was of concern as well as a dent and some damage to the floorpan on the drivers side roughly in line with the door pillar close to a chassis rail(?)  He suggested this might be due to incorrect jacking but also could be signs of an accident.
The oil level was found to be close to minimum (car hasn't been serviced for 4 years so how long has oil been low and has it caused any engine damage), coolant was also low as was pas fluid
Large oil accumulation at rear of engine but no real signs of a leak.
Driveshaft seals starting to leak
Exhaust has a hole on one side
Damp in boot

Thats all I can remember for now as I haven't had the written report back yet but if I find anything else I'll update the post.

The owner emailed me to say that following the inspection he took the car to a local garage that maintain racing cars and they tightened the bolts on the steering so its now ok.  The garage also looked at the chassis damage and concluded the chassis strut had been used to jack the car and have now straightened the damage.  This garage said that it isn't a safety issue and won't affect the way the car drives.

Most of the points highlighted don't concern me too much as this is a 13 year old Italian car.  However, the rust does concern me and I wondered if I should walk away as a result.  When I spoke to Myles at Emblem a while ago, he said that cars around 8000GBP and upwards should have no corrosion.  I think 9500GBP is close to top money and in addition to all the faults the car needs a major service and cambelt.

What do you think?.........
30/7/2009 22:59:57  

Posts: 2386
Since: 27/1/2008
Region: Bristol
Status: offline 		IMO Look else where. The car sounds over priced considering all the faults you recall. If you are having second thoughts it's not the car for you and there are others out there.

_____________________________

Peter

4200 CC
Volvo C70 Cabriolet
VW Golf mk1 Cabriolet
2CV LHD In France
30/7/2009 23:13:07  
 

Posts: 11
Since: 2/7/2009
Status: offline 		Its a money pit and way, way over priced. No service for 4 year?! Look to Europe for one, they'll have less rot.
31/7/2009 11:16:24  
 

Posts: 156
Since: 6/6/2009
Status: offline 		Dicky is it the rosso orient car from ebay?
31/7/2009 12:32:44  
 

Posts: 53
Since: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		yes thats the one, I understand that you were interested in it too?  Looks like you were wise to stick with the yellow one.

I'm gutted as I loved the car and have spent 400 quid but I suppose its better than buying a money pit that would cost me more in the long run

< Message edited by dickyb -- 31/7/2009 12:35:06 >
31/7/2009 14:18:24  
 

Posts: 156
Since: 6/6/2009
Status: offline 		Hi mate

Well it's always going to cost money to put a ghibli stright. I would say you will not find a car with less miles on it & good provenance is never a down side. I belive it has only done a couple of thousand miles in the last few years, that could explaine why it's not had a service.

The car I got in the end had to have a good couple of thousand spent on it to get it up & running. I have also been informed of some other issues that will, in time need to be addressed. 

If it has some rusty areas that would be the biggest problem for me.  but I would not discount it until a bodyshop has looked at it.

With your report you could put pressure on the vendor for a reduced price.

Peter
     
3/8/2009 12:58:18  
 

Posts: 53
Since: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for your input Peter.  I agree that you're never going to buy an absolutely faultless second hand car and I'm not worried about spending some money as long as the car is fundamentally ok.  I agree that it would be hard to find another one with this mileage but consequently if its only covered 29k I'd expect it to be in better condition. 

The car has not been serviced for 4 years and 8000 miles and oil level is low, how long has it been like that?  Oil tends to deteriorate over time as well as mileage so thats a bit of an issue for me.  Also, as the car has been sitting idle for long periods with low oil, the various parts of the engine may not have had the protective film of oil they'd need to preserve them in good condition.

I'm not worried about most of the minor faults as they're easily fixable but the rust and damage to wheelarch and underside are rather concerning.  The car has lived in Jersey for most of its life so has been exposed to a salty atmosphere so further investigation of rust could reveal even more corrosion.  Rust in the bulkhead area is notoriously difficult and expensive to fix and in my experience, once you've got a rust problem, you just end up chasing it forever.  I can't really see a way of taking the car to a bodyshop for investigation unless I ask the owner to do it for me.

Here's a copy of the written report, what do you think?:








CCOMMENTS
 
No vehicle hoist/ramp was available. A large trolley jack and stands were used in order to carry out underside checks. This limits the view of the underside somewhat. Some areas could not be fully seen. There may be further defects, which may be visible given clear underside access and view.
 
Although the radio operates when switched on, the full functionality of the in-car entertainment system has not been checked. This is beyond the scope of our inspections.  You should ask the vendor to fully demonstrate the systems before purchase.
 
Please note that as a service is due, this may reveal repairs or maintenance requirements that could not be identified due to the constraints of a visual and external examination of the vehicle carried out without the benefit of a vehicle hoist.
 
Because some defects do not allow a road test to be carried out a full assessment of the engine, transmission, steering and braking was not possible. It is strongly recommended that the vehicle be fully road tested, prior to any thoughts of purchase, on the completion of the necessary remedial repairs.

This vehicle has an air conditioning system fitted. This must be used frequently throughout the year including winter months in order to help prevent unit failure and gas leakage. A/C systems require annual servicing. Ensure that this has been carried out in the past. You are advised to have the system serviced prior to purchase if no recent servicing has been undertaken.

BODYWORK/CHASSIS;
 
There are scratches to the offside rear wing and boot lid. There are some lighter scratches throughout the vehicle.
There is a small dent to the nearside door and to the offside front wing.
The lacquer is peeling on the boot lid.
There is a large paint chip to the drivers door front edge and smaller ones to the front of the bonnet. The bonnet has also been re-painted at some time.

There is slight bubbling to the paintwork at the lower part of the front windscreen pillars at the join with the front wings.
There is surface corrosion to the under bonnet area at the point where the bonnet hinges are located. This is on both sides.
There is a hole of about 5cm and a small crack to the inner offside front wing.
The chassis on the offside front just under the drivers foot well is bent and damaged in 2 places. The outrigger is also bent as is the lower lip of the inner wing/wheel arch area. I could not find any evidence of accident damage to the vehicle but this should be checked to ensure that there is no misalignment of the chassis.
 
The nearside front strut has been replaced. It is always recommended that suspension struts/shock absorbers are replaced as axle pairs.
 
 
ESSENTIAL REPAIRS;  These require attention prior to purchase.
 
There is a hole of about 5cm and a small crack to the inner offside front wing.
The chassis on the offside front just under the drivers foot well is bent and damaged in 2 places. The outrigger is also bent as is the lower lip of the inner wing/wheel arch area. I could not find any evidence of accident damage to the vehicle but this should be checked to ensure that there is no miss alignment of the chassis.

The dashboard centre switch holder is insecure.
The driver’s seat, seat back lever is missing.
The nearside rear interior light is not working.
The interior mirror is not fitted.
The offside wiper is split.
There is a small hole to the offside rear exhaust box.
The offside headlamp is wet inside and there is a small crack in the lens.

There is slight play in the offside of the steering.
The nearside front suspension bolts are loose. This is between the hub and the strut mount. There is an excessive amount of play to this side of the steering and suspension, which makes the vehicle unsafe to drive. When this has been rectified the steering will have to be checked for wear and a four wheel alignment check would be advised. This should be done once the offside front tyre has been replaced as it is severely worn on both inner and outer edges.

There is oil residue to the rear of the engine. I could not locate its source. This requires cleaning and further investigation.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 





IVE INSPECTIONS
Vehicle Inspection Report


 
ADVISABLE REPAIRS ;
   
Th   ere is heavy wear to the drivers outer seat wing.
The nearside front seat outer plastic cover is insecure.
There is slight damp inside the boot.
The oil level is just above its minimum level.
The power steering level is between its minimum and maximum levels.
The anti freeze content is getting low.
The front brake discs are starting to pit. There is also some signs of pitting to the rear brake discs.
There is some oil residue around the rear differential oil seals. These could require replacement soon. It would be advisable to clean these areas and re-check.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
N.B. When a vehicle is fitted with a camshaft timing belt which is obscured by covers it cannot be examined for wear. The manufacturers recommended replacement time for this vital component should be strictly adhered to , as failure may prove costly to repair
 
 
 
 
 





KEY FOR POINTS ON FOLLOWING PAGES
 


S
--
х
A
N/A
Y
N
C

Satisfactory for age and recorded mileage
Could not be checked
Needs immediate attention
Advisable repair
Not applicable
Yes
No
See Engineer’s comments
 





BODY EXTERIOR


1. Panel Condition / alignment

S

6. Door locks - operation

S

11. Mud flaps

N/A


2. Paintwork

C

7. Fuel filler cover and cap

S

12. Body panels

C


3. Exterior trim

S

8. Soft top (operation)

N/A

13. Bonnet catch

S


4. Glass

S

9. Body damage

N

14. Bonnet hinges

S


5. Bumpers No plates – F / R

S

10. Corrosion

Y

 

 
 





ENGINE COMPARTMENT                                                                       No. of CYLINDERS: 6


15. Coolant Level / Condition

S

22. Power Steering – oil level

A

29. Turbo

--


16. Coolant leaks

N

23. Clutch Fluid

S

30. Fuel pump / pipes

--


17. Antifreeze

A

24. Brake Fluid

S

31. Accelerator linkage

S


18. Radiator / Cap

S

25. Engine Oil level

A

32. Cold starting

S


19. Hoses / Pipes  (where visible)

S

26. External leaks (upper engine)

N

33. Fast idle (cold)

S


20. Drive Belts       (where visible)

S

27. Engine mountings

S

34. Noise level (cold)

S


21. Water Pump  

S

28. Fuel Injection

S

35. Excess fumes / smoke

N


 
Spark plugs are not removed.
It should be noted that a gas analyser has not been used to check the exhaust emissions.
To ensure future serviceability of the camshaft drive belt (if applicable), it is important that the camshaft belt is replaced at intervals specified by the manufacturer. It is in your best interest to ensure that this is carried out.
 





ELECTRICAL / CONTROLS                                                                                                  


36.Starting system / Ignition lock

S

41. Rear lights & No. plate lights

S

49. Instruments

X


37. Battery condition

S

42. Stop lights

S

50. Horn

S


38. Battery voltages:

S

43. Indicator/ Hazard lights

S

51. Radio/Cass/CD/Aerial

S


             - nominal    12.31 volts

S

44. Reverse / Fog lights

S

52. Heater / Fan controls

S


             - starting     11.19 volts

S

45. Auxiliary lights

S

53. Air Con operation

S


             - charging   14.40 volts

S

46. Interior / Panel lights

X

54. Windows / Sun roof

S


39. Headlights

X

47. Mirrors (electric)

S

55. Wipers / Washers

X


40. Sidelights / running lights

S

48. Controls / Switches

X

56. Headlamp wash / wipe

N/A
 





INTERIOR / LUGGAGE COMPARTMENT


57. Steering Wheel / Adjustment

S

64. Door seals / hinges

S

71.Rear parcel shelf

S


58. Seat upholstery

A

65. Interior sills

S

72. Boot / tailgate lock

S


59. Seat adjustment

X

66. Headlining / visors

S

73. Luggage area trim con

A


60. Seatbelts

S

67. Sun roof

N/A

74. Illumination light

S


61. Carpets

S

68. Dash panel (condition)

X

75. Tool kit etc

--


62. Door trim panels

S

69. Cigarette lighter

S

76. Soft top (condition)

N/A


63. Door fittings / operation

S

70. Mirrors (internal)

X

77. Tonneau cover

N/A
 
 
 





FRONT SUSPENSION / STEERING / UNDERFRAME


78. Engine underside leakage

Y

83. Wheel hubs / bearings

S

88. Sub-frames mountings

S


79. Steering joints/ ball joints

X

84. Springs/suspension units

X

89. Suspension arms / mountings

X


80. Steering rack / box

S

85. Pipes / hoses

S

90. Tie bars / anti roll bars

S


81. Chassis members

X

86. Dampers (condition / leaks)

C

91. Corrosion protection

S


82. Power steering (operation)

S

87. Gaiters

S

92. Corrosion – floor/chassis

N
 





REAR SUSPENSION / UNDERFRAME


93. Springs/suspension bars

S

97. Location rods/fixings

S

101. Sub-frames/ mountings

S


94. Anti roll bar

S

98. Bump stops/gaiters

S

102. Chassis members

S


95. Dampers/bushes

S

99. Wheel hubs/bearings

S

103. Corrosion protection

S


96. Suspension arms/fixings

S

100. Pipes/hoses

S

104. Corrosion – floor/chassis

N
 
 





CLUTCH / TRANSMISSION           


105. Fluid / oil leaks

N

109. Casings

--

113 Backlash

--


106. Cables / adjustments

--

110. Mountings

--

114. Gaiters

--


107. Hydraulic system

--

111. Drive shaft assembly

S

115. Propshaft (s)

--


108. Linkage (wear)

--

112. Universal / sliding joints

--

116. Bearings / supports

--
 





EXHAUST SYSTEM


117. Manifold

S

119. Silencer(s) catalyst

X

121. Joints / couplings

S


118. Pipes

S

120. Heat shields / mountings

S

122. System condition
 Good /Average/
Poor / Limited

POOR


 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 





FUEL SYSTEM


123. Tank

S

125. Fuel lines

S

 127. Evidence of leaks

N


124. Tank fixings

S

126. Breather pipes

S

 

 
 





BRAKES


128. Master cylinder security

S

131. Flexible hoses

S

134. Handbrake op / adjustment

--


129. Fluid leaks

N

132. Pipes / connections

S

135. Handbrake linkage

--


130. Servo / power system

S

133. Discs / pads (if visible)

A

136. Pedal / linkage

S
 





WHEELS AND TYRES  Type:
It is recommended that tyres are replaced when the tread depth reaches 2mm


137. Wheel Rims

S

 


138. Wheel Trims

N/A

 


Tyres

Make

Size

Type / Construction

Min tread depth


139. Front RH

GOODYEAR

215/45X17

RADIAL

0

Mm X


140. Front LH

FULDA

“

RADIAL

7

Mm S


141. Rear LH

GOODYEAR“

245/40X17

RADIAL

3

Mm S


142. Rear RH

“

“

RADIAL

3

Mm S


143. Spare

N/A

N/A

CANISTER

--

--


 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 





IVE INSPECTIONS
Vehicle Inspection Report


ROAD TEST
 
 


TEST DISTANCE

NO ROAD TEST CARRIED OUT

SPEED ACHIEVED :      --


 
 


145. Final drive operation /
         noise level

--

152. Instrument /controls function

--

159. Road holding / stability

--


146. Gearbox operation /
         noise level

--

153. Steering wheel alignment

--

160. General steering / handling

--


147. Engine performance

--

154. Clutch operation

--

161. Footbrake operation

--


148. Engine noise

--

155. 4WD operation

N/A

162. Handbrake operation

--


149. Excess smoke

--

156. Cooling fan operation

--

163. Suspension noise

--


150. Overheating evidence

--

157. Steering effort

--

164. Warning lights

--


151. Auto changes / kickdown

N/A

158. Hot restarting

--

 

 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
 





FINAL CHECK


165. Oil leaks

Y

  166. Coolant leaks

N

167. Uneven tyre wear  Y
                                                                   





CONCLUSION
The vehicle at present is not roadworthy.
There are a significant number of items that requires immediate attention. The advisable items should also be noted.
A full road test should be carried out after the repairs are done.
 
 
 
 
3/8/2009 13:08:11  

Posts: 629
Since: 4/7/2007
Status: offline 		Sounds like a horror story and endless money pit. Even ignoring the rust issues and assuming you could remedy some of the defects yourself I reckon your repair bill could run into thousands. Cars should be bought based on their relative condition to the agreed price. Make your purchase decision of this car with your head and not your heart....walk away.
3/8/2009 13:19:45  

Posts: 903
Since: 31/10/2006
Region: Salisbury
Status: offline 		The vendors local mechanic straightened the chassis leg and it's fine now???

Run like the wind.
3/8/2009 21:54:22  
 

Posts: 156
Since: 6/6/2009
Status: offline 		After seeing the report I have to agree. NEXT!
4/8/2009 1:53:18  
 

Posts: 366
Since: 3/7/2009
Status: offline 		Walk Away or be prepared to PAY

This car seems to be unloved by the previous owner and you will need deep pockets to return it to its former glory. Be patient and wait for the right car. Good Luck

_____________________________

Past Masters:- Alfa Romeo GT 3.2 V6, Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6, Alfa Romeo Montreal, Ferrari 308GT4, Mercedes 500SL, Mercedes 380SL, Mercedes 28SE Coupe, Mercedes 450SLC, Alfa Romeo Spider S2, MGC, Marcos 3 litre, Now driving 2007 Gransport LE
4/8/2009 8:02:17  
 

Posts: 53
Since: 2/1/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks for all your help everyone.  Its a great shame as I really liked the car but am glad I had the inspection done as I could have entered into a world of problems.  I only looked at the car quickly as the weather was bad but I'm ashamed of myself that I didn't spot some of the faults that arose.  Its amazing that the car seemed to drive so nicely but then I suppose to the unitiated even a bad one can seem good.

I never anticipated that finding a Ghibli would be so hard, I assumed that they were only owned by enthusiasts as they are of limited appeal.  I suppose the prices have got to the level where people can afford to buy them but not run them.  I've looked at 3 now and all of them have had an absolute fortune spent on them by previous owners and then the current owners have spent nothing.  All 3 had not had a proper service for 3 years or more!

I think I just need to be patient.....
4/8/2009 9:07:22  
 

Posts: 202
Since: 22/3/2007
Status: offline 		If I can find a nice Ferrari 456 I will sell you mine .........
4/8/2009 9:55:32  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
Status: offline 		F 456     12 cylinders and a lot  more litres   dont you know there's a recession on Del Mar       there's a few about at the moment  Del,  reasonably priced ,  nearly bought a 550 last year    but it wasn't to be   , and no flappy paddles , have never seen a   575  on a salvage site in 3 years  and at £60k + there still out of my league 

regards loz


_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

5/8/2009 9:14:33  
 

Posts: 202
Since: 22/3/2007
Status: offline 		There was a 456 on ebay a while ago for £17k (i think), Eurospares had all the parts, for not attrocious money.

But if you add on £5000 for parts £3000 for paint, you have £25,000 and not much more buys you an undamaged one. A cat C/D ferrari wil always have a stigma attched to it. I dread to think what a cat c/d maserati would be worth.....................................................

We did look at the Ex Chris Evans 550 at Foskers, the one he put in a ditch, they had the before and after pictures and damage did not look too bad, but he wanted £42k for it again good ones are that price, oh and then my wife decided we needed a baby which got rid of any ideas of a two seater !!.
5/8/2009 10:13:34  
 

Posts: 3
Since: 11/6/2009
Status: offline 		Quote:  I suppose the prices have got to the level where people can afford to buy them but not run them. 

It seems to me as a relatively impartial outsider (I'm an Alfa enthusiast, and not a motor trade professional) that this statement hits the nail on the head. I considered buying P68 BPR having viewed it a few months ago. But what really put me off was the grumbling suspicion that the value of Ghiblis in general is about to fall through the floor. There is no getting round the fact that it costs thousands to maintain these cars properly. I think they've dropped to a level where anybody who can afford to run one can afford to buy a 3200 or 4200. That's certainly the conclusion I made and I'm now hoping to go for a 3200 before the end of the year. IMHO, particularly in the midst of a global financial downturn, the average value of a used Ghibli in 18 months time will be approximately the same as an average early Biturbo is now, i.e. 2 tenths of naff all.

J.
5/8/2009 10:51:27  
 

Posts: 156
Since: 6/6/2009
Status: offline 		Hi Jonno

There is a lot of sence in what you say, but with regard to running costs (and I quote Andy Hewwood) the cost of running a Ghibli as apposed to a later 32/42 GT is around one third. The parts for later models are very very pricey!

One other largely overlooked point is that the 32/42 series & the Ghibli are two entirely different cars. The Ghibli is far more focussed as a drivers car but with less creature comforts.   

If long term value is a major issue then I would not even look at a Maserati. We own them because they are special.

As the saying goes, Ya pay's ya money....................


Peter
5/8/2009 15:14:03  
 

Posts: 202
Since: 22/3/2007
Status: offline 		That is a fair point.
The man that services mine has always said that you can service a Ghibil for BMW money (obviously not a 318i !) whereas a 3200 takes Ferrari money !

I would be surprised if Ghiblis dropped much lower, you will end up with the really good ones in the hands of those that know, and as there are so few that should help them keep some sort of level. In the same way that a good 355 is worth more than a 360, 3200's, being produced in greater numbers has had an effect on second hand values. I think the 3200 is a lovely car, but they are down to low teens, and as has been mentioned here starts the vicious circle, the are cheap to buy but as servicing is expensive they don't get serviced and then sold on cheap and so and so on.

Del
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