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MaseratiForumMaserati Cars3200GT, 4200 Coupe/Spyder, GranSport MOT FAIL DUE TO RUST ON BRAKE DISKS

MOT FAIL DUE TO RUST ON BRAKE DISKS

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14/12/2011 16:16:32  

Posts: 147
Since: 22/5/2011
Region: London
Status: offline
I went to Halfords for an MOT to my 2003 Maserati 4200 (40.000 miles) since they are the nearest MOT center to me.
They wanted to fail my car due to the fact that the inside of all my disk brakes has sign of rust and dirt and only some part of it showed a clean surface left by the pads. I have not used the car for a few months and anyway have only been driving without ever slamming on the brakes.
The brakes seem to work fine. If I brake hard the car stops with no hesitation and on slippery surfaces I can fill the ABS functioning. 
Should I go back to the test center after slamming on the brakes a few times to clean the disk? Is this a common problem?

Fran
14/12/2011 18:26:05  

Posts: 841
Since: 19/8/2007
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Fran

I assume they have actually failed the car and given you an MOT failure form. If not then get them to MOT it and fail it as you will need the failure form.

Rust on discs is NOT repeat NOT a reason for MOT failure. The only way your discs can fail an MOT is by cracking, corrosion or wear sufficient to weaken the disc structure or inadequate brake performance as measured on on either a Tapley decelerometer or the roller brake.

Therefore suggest you go back to the testing garage and ask them if they would like to reconsider before you lodge an appeal with VOSA. If they maintain their position, ask for an appeal form VT17 and note the address for appeal as displayed in the garage's reception with names of their VOSA certified testers. You will need to complete the form and send it off with payment to the appropriate VOSA centre who will then make arrangements to carry out another MOT at the same garage but using VOSA's own staff. If the appeal is upheld as it will be (based on your explanation) the 2nd test fee will be refunded, you will get your new cert signed by the VOSA tecnician and the garage will receive a b*ll*cking. If they were stupid enough to have failed all 4 discs for rust, they will almost certainly lose their MOT licence.

In writing the above I have assumed you have actually failed the MOT although I suspect they may have tried to do a pre-MOT which is not appellable.

hope this helps


< Message edited by Nigelo -- 14/12/2011 18:30:45 >


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You can lead a horse to water but you cannot force it to drink
14/12/2011 19:11:42  

Posts: 1323
Since: 21/12/2006
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Interesting information.

In terms of "if this a common problem", I'm afraid to say it it.

I'm not technically minded, but I was told this was because the discs dont have any for of protection, like most cars have.  I believe most cars have protective plates to shiled the discs from the elements, but ours dont.  As a reuslt, they often have problems.  I had both my fronts replaced recently for this very reason (I cant remember the price, but something like £500 for a pair, fitted, including pads), which I didnt think was too bad.

Interstingly, I had my car MOTd before having the discs done and it wasnt even mentioned.

Cheers
Woody

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2007 GranSport LE, Nero Carbonio with full beige, nero piping
14/12/2011 21:12:31  

Posts: 2930
Since: 27/1/2008
Region: Bristol
Status: online
I had a similar problem [6 months of no use].

I just took it out on a track day and the discs were like new after 30 mins!

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Peter

4200 CC
VW Golf mk1 Cabriolet
2CV LHD In France
15/12/2011 0:00:45  

Posts: 257
Since: 8/3/2008
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Fran, corroded disks are not a failure on an MOT. Have a look here: http://www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/doitonline/bl/mottestingmanualsandguides/mottestingmanualsandguides.htm Goto class 3,4,5 & 7. Click on contents then section 3, then mechanical brake components. Have a look @ reason for rejection 1h. This bit has been recently changed (hence the black line against it). I test bikes so I am not sure what the manual said before this update. Even If the disk is covered in rust with bits flaking off, if it not sufficiently weakened or insecure, it should not fail. You will notice this is a subjective desition as the manual does not define what level of weakness is sufficient to warant a failure! The thinking is, if it's that bad it would show on the brake test. Testers often confuse the service criteria with the MOT testing minimum requirements or they don't bother reading the testing manuals! Punters are well within their rights to ask for the manual section referring to the failure. It doesnt sound though that you have actually had an MOT test. Do u have a failure sheet? Did you pay them the fee?
17/12/2011 17:12:59  

Posts: 147
Since: 22/5/2011
Region: London
Status: offline
Thank you all for your comments, they are really useful and appreciated.
I did not complete the MOT. They told me my car was going to fail and you had 2 options:
1) stop now and we are not going to charge you
2) continue and we will give you the result of any additional problem
Since I am a decent mechanic and I doubt I have problems to my brakes I asked them to spot.
I will try to go to a different garage next week and I will let you know.

Regards

F
18/12/2011 0:53:51  

Posts: 841
Since: 19/8/2007
Status: offline
Fran

I understand your feelings in wanting to go elsewhere but WHY inconvenience yourself? They cannot fail your car for the reasons you made above and even if they try, just follow what I have posted above - Insist they MOT the car first. It is VOSA not bloody Halfords that set the rules and they see these incidents as an abuse of the system which they are trying to crack down on.

hope this helps

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You can lead a horse to water but you cannot force it to drink
14/1/2012 16:56:20  

Posts: 147
Since: 22/5/2011
Region: London
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I finaly had time to get my MOT done going to another Halfords shop today and my Mas passed with no problems...
18/1/2012 18:10:55  
 

Posts: 88
Since: 13/5/2011
Region: West Yorkshire
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It sounds as though the calipers are sticking a bit due to limited use. If the inside of the disc is still showing a film of rust after driving, but the outer side of the disc is clean, the calipers do not appear to be moving as normal (they should slide in and out). A film of rust on a disc can happen after a day, or two and is not detrimental to any car, as most will do this.
If it has now passed without any work, it just shows how bad some test stations really are in trying to make a fast buck out of us motorists. We should take these criminals to task every time this happens.

Cheers
H

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Robert
02 3200 GTA Assetto Corsa 75/75, 550 Discs & Pagid Race Pads
07 4200 Coupe Cambio Corsa(Facelift), Blue Nettuno
18/1/2012 22:09:19  
 

Posts: 19
Since: 12/1/2012
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I know this isn't a Maserati, but my little VW Golf will do this after it's had a wash. The disc's all go really rusty and the calipers seem to stick....after a good few hard presses of the brakes it all comes off and onto the wheels again....which were just cleaned....anyway as said before, nothing to worry about....and you did get the MOT done so all smiles now! BTW do these car's have disc's all around or drum rear? I was reading somewhere that it was drum rear on the 3200's??

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Options are wonderful, Decisions are a pain in the a**e
18/1/2012 22:45:43  

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Since: 22/8/2011
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drilled and vented discs all round on 3200's - the drum is for the handbrake only and is part of the rear disc. You wouldn't want to try to stop 370bhp with drum brakes!
19/1/2012 4:08:24  
 

Posts: 19
Since: 12/1/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dunnah01 drilled and vented discs all round on 3200's - the drum is for the handbrake only and is part of the rear disc. You wouldn't want to try to stop 370bhp with drum brakes!
Yeah that's what I thought it would be, I saw someone's thread where he had drums on the rear of the car and I got very confused!
19/1/2012 19:30:25  

Posts: 841
Since: 19/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hopefully

It sounds as though the calipers are sticking a bit due to limited use. If the inside of the disc is still showing a film of rust after driving, but the outer side of the disc is clean, the calipers do not appear to be moving as normal (they should slide in and out). A film of rust on a disc can happen after a day, or two and is not detrimental to any car, as most will do this.
If it has now passed without any work, it just shows how bad some test stations really are in trying to make a fast buck out of us motorists. We should take these criminals to task every time this happens.

Cheers
H
No, the calipers do not move at all. Brembo calipers fitted to 3200s (and 4200s) are the 4 pot variety i.e. 2 pistons are fitted on both sides of the caliper and directly actuate the pads. 

Usual cause is corrosion in the caliper pad guide causing the pads to stick although siezed pistons are not unknown. Ensure that all calipers are cleaned out during servicing ensuring that the pads are an easy slide fit. Changing the brake fluid at 2 year intervals will usually avoid seized pistons

hope this helps

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You can lead a horse to water but you cannot force it to drink
20/1/2012 13:57:29  

Posts: 147
Since: 22/5/2011
Region: London
Status: offline
All working perfectly with pads and calipers. The only real thing to report was sum rust on the disks. Not on the surface in contact with the pads but on the external rim of the disks. I believe this is cosmetic and definitely does not impact braking. Long term might impact the disks strenght but I am not there yet.

F
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