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Maserati 430

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8/4/2011 18:44:18  
 

Posts: 3
Since: 8/4/2011
Status: offline 		Hi All, I'm new to this site and this is my first post, so I thought I'd introduce myself a bit. I'm from London and currently drive a 2007 Alfa Romeo GT but would like to swap for Maserati at some point. I saw a really interesting looking Maserati 430 advertised on Pistonheads and Auto Trader: - 1991 - 27,000 miles - automatic - silver - Full Maserati Service history - £8,000 Based on the pics the car looks mint both on the inside and outside. Any thoughts if going for this car would be madness or genius? What should I look at specifically if I go see the car? How much would it cost me annually to run this car if I drive 3000-4000 miles per year? Cost of Insurance? The car is 2.5 hour drive away so I haven't gone to see it yet, thought I'd gauge the opinions of this forum first. Is the price right? Any help would be much appreciated. And here's a link to the garage that is selling the car: http://www.centurianauto.co.uk
9/4/2011 21:39:48  

Posts: 228
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hi ajs178, well! What a question! and where to start?!! I think the first thing I would ask is; have you owned Italian cars before your current Alfa? and how old were they? You are likely, dynamics aside, to find the switchgear and ergonomics relative to your current drive a bit different. 430s do cut a lovely line and I've nearly succumbed to a couple myself- the appeal only amplified by the fact that they have the proper number of doors for the seats! What you are looking for is an enormous service history and documentation specifically regarding timing belts AND tensioners AND (critically) oil changes. You want to kneel down and see if the sump is wet underneath- likewise for the rear diff. See if the oil filter is genuine (not a disaster if it isn't, but it tells you something) You want to get somebody else to start it from cold and stand round the back and see if you get a puff of anything from the rear. At this age you want to see if theres any engine management issues; the CHECK ENGINE lamp should come on and then go out upon start up. If it doesn't then it may have been disconnected. Under acceleration is shouldn't stutter or gag and slowing down it should be happy too. You see alot of aftermarket air filters under the bonnets of this kind of thing that look like aircraft parts and it's nice to see what appears to be an original underbonnet look. It appears to have a light bodykit on the side skirts and aftermarket ANSA backboxes (not a bad thing the originals are quite poor) the driver's door release on the inside is sitting a little high; it might be nothing. At this point in the vehicles life- if it's still on the go; then somebody loves it- there are more mainstream cars to own which turn more heads for less money- seems like alot of money though- have you thought of a Ghibli? JimP
11/4/2011 23:12:56  
 

Posts: 3
Since: 8/4/2011
Status: offline 		Hi Jim, Many thanks for your response. Your advice is most useful about what to look out for. As for me, my current Alfa is the only Italian car I've ever owned, so yes, going from a 3 year old Italian car to a 20-year-old one might be a shock to the system. But I've always had a soft spot for these Biturbo cars ever since the early nineties when as a kid I went to a Maserati dealer with my dad and saw and sat in two Maseratis: the 228 and the 430. In terms of this 430 being advertised, I thought the bodykit including the side skirts was a standard feature from the face-lifted 4V version onwards? And the model I'd really love to have is the last face-lifted 430 with the Ghibli-style headlights but I've not seen those advertised at all. They must be super rare. The Ghibli GT or Ghibli Cup would be lovely too but I think these command much higher prices than the 430. I saw a nice Ghibli GT advertised for £13,000 so thats another £5k on top of the 430 (and I might need that £5k to keep the car running if rumours are to be believed!) Also the last of the line 222 (SR?) would be a lovely proposition but again very rare at least in the UK. Do you know any good websites where Biturbo-era cars would be for sale? I wouldn't actually mind Left-Hand-Drive either.
12/4/2011 10:54:06  

Posts: 228
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hi ajs178,

that's an interesting story about being in the showroom with your father and is a classic starting point for building the desire for ownership. I think the dealerships actually understand that and encourage casual enquiries as it can take years to go from an admirer to an owner and it has to start somewhere. There is definitely a distinction between the people who will turn up outside my local dealership and take pictures of each other standing in front of cars with their mobiles and the people who will go inside and have a sit in the vehicles themselves.

If your current Alfa is your only ever Italian car then you might not be prepared for what lies ahead. I think the biggest difference will be in the actual feel and manner of a 430- have you sat in one recently? I think it's quite important to see another Biturbo of the same era. £8K should be able to get you a Ghibli of some kind which has three or four distinct major advantages over a 430. (A friend of mine recently sold his decent Ghibli GT for about £8K)

1- rear suspension
2- rear diff
3- engine/engine management
4- corrosion "protection"

The rear-suspension and diff being the areas of greatest advancement which bring the cars from "spirited" in the wet to "exciting".
Having said all that, I am fully aware of the 430 with the headlights described- there used to be the occasional picture of a black one in a field in Auto Italia years ago- it was really smart. Sounds like you know your stuff on the 430 front- more so than me anyway!

As for a place to start- you are already aware of the major ones I think- It might be worth checking the Maserati Club UK website also which has a comprehensive selling section accessible to non-members and this kind of thing does feature. That would be a good place to start.

what else have you owned in the past ajs...?

JimP
13/4/2011 18:51:32  
 

Posts: 3
Since: 8/4/2011
Status: offline 		Hi Jim,

My previous cars have been a mixed bag:

1) 1984 Skoda 120L (engine in the back). Great car for driving around town but I had this while I was still living in Finland and in the winter I had to have a 40 lbs bag of sand in the front boot to make it go around corners in the snow. Also the locks would freeze and I could only get in the car in the morning by first using a blow dryer for 1-2 minutes on the locks! This was not handy if I had to park the car anywhere apart from at home. I used to leave all 4 doors unlocked with the hopes that at least one of them would let me in even if the weather was below zero... Once I remember only one rear door working so I had to get in from there and climb over the front seats to the driver's seat to start the engine. So perhaps this experience was good preparation for a 20-year old Maserati? :D

2) 1996 Rover 620 Sli. Great Honda engine which revved freely but terrible handling and terrible everything else basically.

3) 2004 Chrysler Crossfire Auto. Very good for nipping around central London with automatic transmission and enough punch to keep up with the traffic. Also easy to park as the car was very short as a pure 2-seater. Terrible steering (very slow - felt like 4 turns lock to lock!) and terrible ride over potholes.

4) 2008 Ford Mustang V8 GT. This is where I went crazy with my car choice. Great 4.6 litre V8 with 300 bhp on the tap. Had all necessary mods done on this one including sports exhaust, lowered suspension and new shocks, bigger wheels with low profile tyres, and a quick shift kit. Left hand drive and so wide that it was almost undriveable in central London. On two occasions I remember having to turn around on a residential street which roadworks had reduced to a single lane: the car was simply too wide to pass through. I got 14 mpg in town and the car had to go eventually.

5) 2007 Alfa GT 1.9jtdm. I have to say this is the most complete car I've owned so far. I've had a Q2 limited slip differential installed, full Billstein coilover suspension with 35mm lowering, and the Autodelta tuning box to bring the power to about 185bhp. The car is a lusso spec with pretty much every option ticked including the integrated satellite navigation. The handling is brilliant, it corners like it's on rails with the coilover kit and the Autodelta tuning box has made such a diffence to the torque and power.

So that's my car history. How about you? What do you drive at the moment and what have you owned before? And what's your plan for the next motor? I always find it fascinating how people have ended up with the cars they've got.

In terms of Biturbos, I've found a couple of interesting propositions on the www.mobile.de website:

Maserati 222 SR 2.8V6 Biturbo Automatic, 62,000 km. €6,900
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=143256309&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=16600&makeModelVariant1.modelId=2&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&lang=en&pageNumber=1

Maserati Karif, 1993, 45,000km, €16,900
http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/showDetails.html?id=140605849&__lp=1&scopeId=C&sortOption.sortBy=searchNetGrossPrice&sortOption.sortOrder=ASCENDING&makeModelVariant1.makeId=16600&makeModelVariant1.modelId=17&damageUnrepaired=ALSO_DAMAGE_UNREPAIRED&export=ALSO_EXPORT&lang=en&pageNumber=1

What's your take on these two? Obviously the Karif is quite a lot more expensive... My worry on the 222SR is that the numbers in the odometer don't seem to line up which feels dodgy...






14/4/2011 11:14:09  

Posts: 228
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		hi ajs,

gosh, as to quoting you the merits of a 222 against a Karif; I'd be making stuff up! I can do a 430 to a Ghibli, but to distinguish between these two, I'd have to read some material to quote facts and not opinions. Have you thought about contacting Bill McGrath Maserati at Kimpton in Hertfordshire?

Not only are they the country's leading authority on this era of Trident; they may be aware of one for sale within the UK as they do occasionally advertise on behalf of customers.

I've got to tell you though; I'd be going for the 222, despite the fact it's an auto. Yes the Karif does seem expensive- their purported rarity is often seen as an factor. As for the numbers not lining up in the odometre of the 222- THIS is exactly indicative of the gap in ergonomics and build quality that I mentioned between some of the more modern stuff you've owned and something of this age made in Italy. However it looks pretty good to me!



< Message edited by ZAM400209 -- 19/4/2011 14:44:55 >
15/4/2011 14:00:07  

Posts: 228
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Ha!

yes they do!

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201111382009319/sort/priceasc/usedcars/model/159/make/alfa_romeo/keywords/q4/postcode/eh74jl/radius/1500/page/1?logcode=p
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