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20/8/2010 16:57:50  
 

Posts: 10
Since: 20/8/2010
Status: offline 		Hi guys where is the OBD socket on a QP IV year 2000? As mine keeps getting the engine check light on and then idles rough!
22/8/2010 19:27:17  

Posts: 197
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		hi ianz900,

unless I am mistaken, there isn't a diagnostic socket.

I don't think I'm inaccurate in saying that the QP4 and Ghibli engine management systems are the same (depending on V6/V8 configuration) and the Ghibli "diagnostics" process consists of connecting the workshop computer to the twin engine management units inline with the looms from the engine bay. The looms from engine bay are connectorised behind the glovebox just inside the passenger bulkhead and the computer plugs in there. Unfortunately, for this era of vehicle (FIAT had it from the Cinquecento onwards) we don't have data-logging on the Weber IAW management system, so with turn-off the car "forgets" the faults it has until they come back. And when they come back, you have to turn the engine off to connect the workshop computer and by doing so the car re-starts with reset ECU's!!

what problems is it exhibiting...?

JimP
23/8/2010 13:31:45  

Posts: 197
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		On a Ghibli Ian, the associated wiring looks like this... (if your QP4 is a V6, I would expect the colour codes are exactly the same) there's a combination of inline-plugs and a method of connecting it which I forget exactly- but the four square white connectors on the left of this picture (one disappearing behind the carpet) are what is involved for the SD1 tester.

It should be noted that the SD1 tester is a huge piece of gear which usually workshops would have on wheels and it provides through a split screen (tube screen) monitor, the functionality of both engine banks simultaneously. I don't think there is any actual "comms" back into the ECUs as such- you can't upload anything, just observe...

JimP




Attachment (1)
24/8/2010 10:17:45  
 

Posts: 10
Since: 20/8/2010
Status: offline 		Thanks Guys for the information. The problem I have is the following when the car is cold no engine check light and car runs fine. Once up to operating temp engine check light comes on and the engine starts to rough idle. I would say it is missing as once past 2000 rpm the car smooths out but below that you can hear a miss fire! I have checked all plugs and they all seem ok.Also put a meter on each coil and resistance is the same.I get the feeling it is running lean on one bank. I have thought about disconnecting the temp sensor on each bank to see if it will change the problem,or disconnecting the lambda sensors one at a time.Not sure if on these cars the sensors have a default setting once disconnected ? Not had time yet as on hols to try this yet. Any other suggestion welcome to see if I can track the issue down or is there any Maserati places near Bristol with the SD1 kits.
24/8/2010 10:46:46  

Posts: 197
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		The Lambda probes are the classic failure for this kind of thing I think, followed by coolant temp and then air temp senders...
Is there a good scrappy near you? The coolant and air senders can certainly be replaced with period FIAT items if you take care to match the resistances to get the appropriate flavour. Coolant are £35 each from Main Dealers.
I don't have any info on the Lambda probes though...
31/8/2010 21:31:59  
 

Posts: 10
Since: 20/8/2010
Status: offline 		thanks guys for all the input you have given. Just to give you an update the car still has the problem and it is a definite misfire but intermittent! Have taken to a guy who knows a bit about them and he was kind enough to change some parts over from his 3200!Now know it is not the coil packs and injectors plug and compressions.Look like it is playing up on the first two cylinders on one bank, if you take the coil leads of these two it does not make to much of a difference. Now thinking it might be the amplifier for the coils which is playing up as looking at the engine there are four of them and I am guessing that each one supplies two coils?

The strange thing we had was after changing the coils over on one bank the issue went away for a short while but then came back again! Another part of me is suspecting that I have a bad wire in the loom for these two coils.
1/9/2010 8:18:07  

Posts: 197
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		You've got a V8 then?

That may point to a problem with one amplifier-pack affecting two cylinders... The amps are "unallocated" and can be connected to any cylinder- the wiring denotes the timing and that comes from the ECU-

you could pull the leads and swap them across amps and see if the problem moves cylinders...

JimP
4/9/2010 9:20:22  
 

Posts: 10
Since: 20/8/2010
Status: offline 		Hi Guys having had the car checked out it has been found that the Lambda sensor is faulty on one bank! Checked with the dealers/europarts and the cost was £450+ VAT!!!! The word taking the **** springs to mind! After doing a bit of digging on the Internet the sensor is used in quite a few cars! The one I have installed is a land rover P/N ERR 6729 has got the same plug as the QP so just a straight swap and £80 including the VAT , could of got cheaper of ebay but cant wait to try! Just installed it so will see if this fixes it. Will let you know and thanks for all your help.

Below is a list of cars and genuine NTK parts numbers for future use which are all the same!!!! Only difference is the plug on the end!

NTK stock number 1907 parts no 0td2f-3k1
LUCas SEB389
T0S01 Tomco or 11014T12
TITANIA

Land Rover Range Rover 3,9 Ltr./134 kW 89-95 ERR6729
2045Kr
11123
Land Rover Range Rover 4,2 Ltr./149 kW 92-94 ERR6729
2045Kr
11123
Maserati Ghibli 2.0 Turbo 24v 2,0 Ltr./224kW 92-ON TOS01
2045Kr
11123
Maserati Shamal 3.2 Turbo 3,2 Ltr./240kW 89-ON TOS01
2045Kr
11123
Rover 820 2.0 i 2,0 Ltr./88 kW 86-91 ERR6729
2045Kr
11123
rover 820 2.0 MPi 2.0 Ltr 86-92
2045Kr
11123
Rover MG RV8 3,9 Ltr./140 kW 92-94 PRC7062A
2045Kr
11123
Rover MGR 3.9 Ltr 92-96
2045Kr
11123
Rover Montego 1.6 Ltr 92-93
2045Kr
11123
Rover Montego 2.0 Ltr 91-94
2045Kr
11123
Aston Martin Virage 32V 5.3 90-96 OTD3G-P3A1
2045Kr
11123
Aston Martin Virage 32V USA kat. 5.3 90-96 OTD3G-P3A1
2045Kr
11123
Aston Martin Volante 5.3 90-95 OTD3G-P3A1
2045Kr
11123
Jaguar XJS 4.0 4.0 Ltr. 91-97
2045Kr
11123
Land Rover Defender 3.5 V8 3.5 Ltr./ 90-ON OTD3G-3A1
2045Kr
Land Rover Discovery 2,0 Ltr./100 kW 90-ON ERR6729
2045Kr
Land Rover Discovery 3,5 Ltr./110 kW 89-93 ERR6729
2045Kr
Land Rover Discovery 3,9 Ltr./134 kW 90-ON ERR6729
2045Kr
Land Rover Range Rover 3,5 Ltr./110 kW 86-90 ERR6729

marke marke
refnr refnr
vgl vgl
881 881
ASTON MARTIN ASTON MARTIN
TOS01, 6909240 TOS01, 6909240
оригинальный номер original number
36 36
FORD FORD
F3XY9F472C, F3XZ9F472A, 6909240, TOS03, V92HF9F472AA, V93HF9F472AA, F3XA9F472AA, F3XA9F472AB, F3XA9F472BA, F3XA9F472BB, F3XY9F472A, F3XY9F472B F3XY9F472C, F3XZ9F472A, 6909240, TOS03, V92HF9F472AA, V93HF9F472AA, F3XA9F472AA, F3XA9F472AB, F3XA9F472BA, F3XA9F472BB, F3XY9F472A, F3XY9F472B
оригинальный номер original number
771 771
MASERATI MASERATI
TOS01 TOS01
оригинальный номер original number
80 80
NISSAN NISSAN
2269061A10, 2269061A20, 2269064J01, 2269067S00, 2269069A01, 2269070F00, 2269070F10, 2269070F60, 2269070F66, 2269078J00, 2269078J60, 2269078N00, 2269088G01, 2269098E00, 22690F6600, 226A01M500, 226A01M560, 226A01M561, 226A040U21, 226A040U60, 226A040U61, 226A040U62, 226A049U01, 226A049U02, 226A070F00, 226A070F10, 226A070F61, 226A070F65, 226A070F66, 226A078J00, 226A078J60, 226A078J61, 226A070F60, 226900B000, 2269012G02, 2269019P10, 2269019P20, 2269019P40, 226901M500, 226901M561, 2269020R00, 2269021P00, 2269021P10, 2269021P11, 2269028F20, 2269040U21, 2269040U60, 2269061A00 2269061A10, 2269061A20, 2269064J01, 2269067S00, 2269069A01, 2269070F00, 2269070F10, 2269070F60, 2269070F66, 2269078J00, 2269078J60, 2269078N00, 2269088G01, 2269098E00, 22690F6600, 226A01M500, 226A01M560, 226A01M561, 226A040U21, 226A040U60, 226A040U61, 226A040U62, 226A049U01, 226A049U02, 226A070F00, 226A070F10, 226A070F61, 226A070F65, 226A070F66, 226A078J00, 226A078J60, 226A078J61, 226A070F60, 226900B000, 2269012G02, 2269019P10, 2269019P20, 2269019P40, 226901M500, 226901M561, 2269020R00, 2269021P00, 2269021P10, 2269021P11, 2269028F20, 2269040U21, 2269040U60, 2269061A00
оригинальный номер original number
95 95
ROVER ROVER
ERR6729, PRC6978, PRC7062, PRC7062A, 73365, 73365A, 73371A, PRC6325 ERR6729, PRC6978, PRC7062, PRC7062A, 73365, 73365A, 73371A, PRC6325
оригинальный номер original number
861 861
TVR TVR
ERR6729, DRG3LS ERR6729, DRG3LS
оригинальный номер original number
530 530
BOSCH BOSCH
0986258002, F00E260610, F00E260192, F00E260190, F00E261358 0986258002, F00E260610, F00E260192, F00E260190, F00E261358
деталь detail
1462 1462
NTK (NGK-GROUP) NTK (NGK-GROUP)
OTD3G3A1, OTD3G3LS, OTD5F3E1, OTD2F2B, OTD2F1L1, OTD5S25E3, OTD2F3H1, OTD2F3K1 OTD3G3A1, OTD3G3LS, OTD5F3E1, OTD2F2B, OTD2F1L1, OTD5S25E3, OTD2F3H1, OTD2F3K1
деталь detail









433 433
Наружная резьба [мм] Outer Thread [mm]
M 12x1,25 M 12x1, 25
M 12x1,25 M 12x1, 25
10003 10003
мм mm
A A
1 1
686 686
Количество проводов Number of wires
3 3
3 3
10001 10001
Провод Wire
N N
1 1
1059 1059
Еденица измерения One unit of measurement
Ti Ti
Ti Ti
10002 10002

A A
1 1

5/9/2010 19:41:56  

Posts: 197
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		well done Ian!

Congratulations on revealing this goldmine of what I'm sure will prove to be invaluable info for many owners!

Thankyou

JimP
6/9/2010 7:46:28  
 

Posts: 10
Since: 20/8/2010
Status: offline 		Just done a 200 mile round trip in the car and all seems to be fine now!
26/9/2010 11:08:55  
 

Posts: 10
Since: 20/8/2010
Status: offline 		Hi

Car still running fine except for a little niggle where the engine check light comes on when in traffic! Switch it off and all is fine again when re-started. Am going to change the other Lambda sensor just for good measure as the tick over is a bit lumpy when idling not bad but I just like to get my car right. Not sure if all the V8's have a slightly lumpy tick over? Also noticed the other day when changing the oil that one of the hoses on the inter cooler is looking a bit tired will see if I can get a silicone one to replace it!

Forgot to say the NTK P/N OTD3G-3A1 for Lambda sensor
26/9/2010 20:05:02  

Posts: 197
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hi Ian,

I think most of these cars get a bit rough whilst just sitting in traffic. Two turbos and all the exhaust manifold pipework generating heat upon heat like a big oven on wheels!
I can't remember if the QP4 has bonnet vents? Hot running, or more to the point starting was a big issue for the earlier Biturbos and although it was much improved over successive QPs and Ghiblis through fuel vapour return pipework and resiting of fuel lines, it is still a distant issue...
Classically, the fuel heats up as it enters the engine bay on the rail and the engine has to still try and make the best burn of it in the cylinder. Hot starting from a well warmed car is sometimes quite difficult as the residual fuel is evaporating away in the rail and doesn't inject very well. There's a whole host of other issues with coolant temp senders and air temp senders but I find I've managed to avoid all of this over nearly 10 years of ownership by installing a radiator-fan overide system as a button.

The thing is that the CHECK ENGINE light isn't really indicative of an actual engine management/mechanical system failure, it's indicative of the operating parameters moving outside an ideal range- usually indicated by fuelling. Analysed in turn by the Lambda probes this usually happens with high temperatures. I know this sound bonkers- but running the AC in traffic will run the radiator fans more and that might help- although the cooling benefit might be offset by the slightly increased loading on the engine of the engaged AC compressor.

In short- given the age of these cars now, you have to accept some niggles- ANNOYING as this is; if that happened to me; I'D restart to cancel it!! But because of my fan-overide I think I'm avoiding it. These cars benefit from not getting too hot when stationary and I think what you're experiencing is indicative of what happens if they do.

I'd be very happy to post a copy of the schematic I derived for this mod...?

JimP
2/10/2010 9:28:38  
 

Posts: 10
Since: 20/8/2010
Status: offline 		Hi Jim thanks for the info. I agree with you on the heat build up as big engine small bay = loads of heat! When in traffic where is you temp gauge at?Mine is just over 190! Never goes higher but would be happier if lower.On the motor way it sits just above 120 so fine. May do the mode of putting in a override switch for the fans so can cut them in earlier when in traffic. Have also thought about installing bonnet vents to get rid of some of the heat but done really like to mess around with the body.

As for the engine management light I still have an issue as just occasionally the car does not want to start on all banks and seems to be over fuelling,as can smell the fuel. It then slowly starts to pick and clear. Will change the second Lambda sensor first then get the meter out and measure the other sensors to see if they are causing the issue. Just feel there is a slight lack in power as the car seems to run fine one minute with smooth fast accelerations and then another time seems to be a bit life less.

Just out of interest what is the MPG you get? I know stupid question but just need to compare to see if the car is using more than normal.Mine does about 320 miles on run at 80+ from a full tank.

Ian
3/10/2010 22:37:09  

Posts: 197
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hi Ian- my temperature gauge is calibrated between 50 and 130 with 90 being the centre, I have never seen it exceed 90 as the fans cut in automatically at about 85- although I bring them in manually at 75/80 in traffic.-

As for consumption, as I have a Cup which is a V6 2.0 litre, I get about 27 mpg on runs which will be somewhat shy of your V8 3.2 I would think. I can't upload the schematic from my Mac here at home- I'll do it tomorrow from work.

Incidentally- I would definitely think you need to replace the 2nd Lambda probe as to a certain extent the banks will be "fighting each other" as they are managed separately...

JimP
4/10/2010 9:47:32  

Posts: 197
Since: 4/5/2010
Status: offline 		Hmm- just had a look at my schematic and there's a couple of "anomalies" in it!
I think the reality that I have is different from what I have drawn! (it must be because it works) give me a couple of days to sort the drawing out...
5/10/2010 8:17:35  
 

Posts: 10
Since: 20/8/2010
Status: offline 		Hi Jim

Don't worry about schematics as I am sure I can sort the issue out. Thanks very much for your help so far
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