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Quattroporte Transmission Failure

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14/2/2010 2:23:11  
 

Posts: 20
Since: 27/4/2008
Status: offline 		Hi,

the car is a 2005 QP, was driving home from the gym and the car cut out (became nearly impossible to steer or brake...) and transmission failure came up on the dash. I turned it off and waited for the computers to go off and tried it again but it wouldn't even try to turn over. There was a new clutch and spigot bearing put in 5k ago.

Obviously I thought it was the f1 pump motor but when I open the driver door I still hear the motor priming for about 3-4 seconds. It sounds the exact same as it always sounded. Also is the pump motor in the same position as the 4200(I have read loczb's thread on the removal)?

Thanks,

Mick
14/2/2010 21:52:27  
 

Posts: 387
Since: 20/4/2008
Status: offline 		If the F1 pump goes it wouldn;t work as in the past it was usually the motor burning out due to a faulty relay. What's the state of your battery? I've heard a similar thing happen to somebody when their battery was flat/on the way out. On your dash, what symbol did it show eg N or a '-'?

Have you got the car to a garage yet?
15/2/2010 14:35:05  
 

Posts: 16
Since: 11/1/2009
Region: Surrey
Status: offline
If the engine is not turning over then it sounds like the clutch position sensor - this is either not sending a signal or signaling that the clutch is engaged. Some places recommend that these are replaced at the same time as having a new clutch put in. Part is around £250 - but labour cost may sting a little unless you have an understanding garage.

With the F1 pump or a dead clutch the engine will turn over but the car will not let you engage a gear.

If you are lucky (and these cars do throw out the odd spurious warning) it may be as Simon suggested: A battery low on charge.
15/2/2010 15:02:44  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
Status: offline 		Be very surprised if its battery related ,  you say it cut out whilst driving , so providing your alternator s working  the battery is not needed      to run the car,  sounds to me sensor/actuator  related , could be one of several  , fact that it wouldn't even turn over could mean its locked or still  in gear         what does it show on the dash   neutral or in gear               the  car wont start whilst in gear  ,  i'd try a battery reset first off   leaving it off for atleast 10-15 mins    then try to restart in the normal way  if all is back to normal    a quick trip  for a diag is in order  soon as ,   if its actuator   best to sort soon as

Just a quick thought  if you had a clutch recently  did they top up the F1 pump fluid,  if its low or you have a leak then this could cause  the actuators to fluctuate and not connect or disconnect gears    but the pump would still whirr  but only for a limited time before it packs up   best to get it checked soon as

Please  post the outcome      this could be  one  to note for the future

regards loz   

< Message edited by lozcb -- 15/2/2010 15:04:23 >

_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

15/2/2010 19:23:28  
 

Posts: 20
Since: 27/4/2008
Status: offline 		Interesting call on the battery, I was away for a week and when I came back I was snowed under for 2 more. I tried to start it but there wasn't enough juice, I took the battery out and trickle charged it. This was about a week before this happened.

The annoying thing is that the day after I bought the car (that was just out of warranty) I noticed what I thought was the clutch slipping. I bought it from Sevenoaks Maserati, I told them and they told me to get it checked. There are no Maserati dealers in Ireland so it is a 200 mile trek up to Northern Ireland. They diagnosed the spigot bearing as the fault and Sevenoaks then said that it was a known Maserati fault so Mas UK would cover it. Mas Uk wouldn't accept it was a known fault so after a bit of passing the blame I had to pay... I got a new clutch while everything was out.

If this is an expensive fix I will be going back to Mas Uk, they had me over a barrel the last time because I was waiting around in the dealership and even had to get a hotel overnight while they were going back and fourth about who if anyone was liable...







Attachment (2)
16/2/2010 14:01:30  

Posts: 260
Since: 16/1/2007
Region: South Northants
Status: offline 		I had the Clutch Position Sensor go on my 4200 and I experienced similar symptoms!

Could be a good call!

Rgd's

Roger
16/2/2010 18:51:15  

Posts: 696
Since: 25/5/2008
Region: Essex/Herts Border
Status: offline 		Roger,
How did they replace the sensor, was it a clutch out task?


< Message edited by Klive -- 17/2/2010 7:13:32 >

_____________________________

05 4200 CC
16/2/2010 20:59:44  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
Status: offline 		Similar post from maserati life

This morning I encountered the same problem I reported earlier, this time I was in first when I approached the stop. Again, the transmission warning light came on with the warning chime. I pumped the brake once and the light went out. I decided to replace the brake light switch and as I was pulling into the FM dealership the transmission light came on again. This time pumping the bake didn't work. The technician at the dealership connected the SD3 reader and determined the problem was the bake light switch. After replacing the switch he showed me that the old switch wasn't extending all the way out. As a consequence, the TCU wasn't getting the signal showing that the brake pedal was depressed and therefore wouldn't enable gear selection. I made it to all my errands and home without a hitch. So here is one more component to considered when diagnosing a transmission problem.


regards loz


_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

16/2/2010 22:08:53  
 

Posts: 387
Since: 20/4/2008
Status: offline 		Hi, I noticed in your photo that the engine temperature was up to normal (195 ish) but I thought you said that the engine wouldn't turn over? Will the car start now but with that error light? Its also showing N, meaning its in neutral, so if the car won't turn over it can't be because its in gear.

Also, has/did your clock forget its date and gone to 00.00 when the fault occured?

< Message edited by sjn2004 -- 16/2/2010 22:11:06 >
17/2/2010 8:49:12  

Posts: 260
Since: 16/1/2007
Region: South Northants
Status: offline 		Hi Keith

What happened with my car was that it stalled whilst at a set of traffic lights and would not re-start!

I don't remember the warning light coming on but I'm not saying it didn't!

I was stuck in the middle of the crossing in Ashford, Kent but eventually managed to get the car started again and it drove ok to my distination just a mile away.

After a couple of hours the car started but as Giallo was only a small detour from my route home I decided to call in and have them check it out.

On arriving at Giallo the car stalled again and would not start. Mathew diagnosed the clutch position sensor as the fault and did repairs with the clutch insitue but I think they have to remove some parts to get to it?

Hope this helps?

Regards


Roger
18/2/2010 0:02:43  
 

Posts: 20
Since: 27/4/2008
Status: offline 		Hi,

I took the picture while I was waiting for a flatbed to bring me home so the engine was still hot. The time is correct not reset, I was training late! The car wont start/ turnover since and the same faults appear. As soon as I put in the key (before I try and turn it over) it beeps constantly and shows the transmission failure warning, I am getting it trailered the 200 miles on Wednesday to Charles Hurst Belfast so I will let everyone know what the problem is then.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sjn2004

Hi, I noticed in your photo that the engine temperature was up to normal (195 ish) but I thought you said that the engine wouldn't turn over? Will the car start now but with that error light? Its also showing N, meaning its in neutral, so if the car won't turn over it can't be because its in gear.

Also, has/did your clock forget its date and gone to 00.00 when the fault occured?
18/2/2010 16:55:33  

Posts: 18
Since: 9/11/2009
Region: Glasgow
Status: offline 		Mick,
I had a very similar problem last year. I have had my 2006 QP for 3+years and this is the only time it has broken down. I drove to the South of France and parked. When I tried to restart the transmission light and buzzer came on and it wouldnt turn over. The dealer thought it was the F1 pump although it went so suddenly I said I thought it was electrical. They replaced the pump but it still wouldnt go. Turned out to be a bad earth ( around drivers footwell) and once cleaned its been fine ever since.

Good luck and fingers crossed its a cheap fix.
Cheers
28/2/2010 0:07:57  
 

Posts: 20
Since: 27/4/2008
Status: offline 		Good call on the clutch position sensor. Charles Hurst wants 1860 sterling to fix it, sound over the top for a main stealer?

He told me they are doing 1 a month in Ireland! it's a really dangerous fault, I was going 60 mph thankfully on a straight part of a winding road, you lose your power steering and brakes. With one a month in Ireland alone someone is gona get hurt with this fault.
28/2/2010 0:42:31  
 

Posts: 387
Since: 20/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mickk

Good call on the clutch position sensor. Charles Hurst wants 1860 sterling to fix it, sound over the top for a main stealer?

He told me they are doing 1 a month in Ireland! it's a really dangerous fault, I was going 60 mph thankfully on a straight part of a winding road, you lose your power steering and brakes. With one a month in Ireland alone someone is gona get hurt with this fault.


Strange that on Maseratilife.com where many of the owners have QP's I've not seen this failure. If its as common as the main dealer is suggesting then I suspect there would be many more reports on the web.

Is Charles Hurst the only dealer in Ireland? That seems pretty pricey as you can get the clutch replaced for £1400 or so in the UK.

Where did you buy the car from and how long ago? Even 2nd hand cars come with a warranty in the UK for 6 months if bought from a dealer. Surely a sensor isn't a wear and tear item?

Just noticed you bought it at Lancasters back in Sep, I'd be on the phone to them as it is still covered by a warranty (sales of goods act). Now I also noticed in your old post that the clutch was very worn, I wonder if the clutch gets to 100% wear that it damages the sensor in some way?

Here's the part on eurospares, its £200.

http://www.eurospares.co.uk/partsListing.asp?M=3&Mo=718&A=1&B=42846&S=&ID4=1741909

< Message edited by sjn2004 -- 28/2/2010 0:52:01 >
4/3/2010 22:01:57  
 

Posts: 20
Since: 27/4/2008
Status: offline 		I didn't get any warranty with the car, are you sure you are supposed to get 6 months? I tried to get them to pay for the spigot bearing but they refused, it was like it from the day i bought it and the work was done within 6 months, do you reckon I have some comeback with them now?
4/3/2010 22:09:10  
 

Posts: 387
Since: 20/4/2008
Status: offline 		Its the sales of good act, any car dealer has to provide a warranty. Robbiemac is the expert on this, he helped me out when I had an issue 5 months after I bought my car. I also thought all Maserati's sold by a main dealer had to come with the 1 year Trident warranty? Send a PM for my email address and I can give you more info off the public board.

http://www.maserati.co.uk/maserati/uk/en/index/Ownership/warranty.html

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_world/consumer_affairs/buying_second_hand_vehicles.htm#you_bought_the_vehicle_from_a_dealer

QUOTE "If you take the vehicle back within six months of buying it, the dealer should accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold and offer to repair or replace it. If the dealer doesn't accept that there was a problem when the vehicle was sold, they will have to prove this."

Simon

< Message edited by sjn2004 -- 4/3/2010 22:17:08 >
4/3/2010 23:39:11  
 

Posts: 575
Since: 29/1/2007
Status: offline 		Sorry guys, been offline for a bit, but Simon's right, if you bought the car through a trade dealer then a warrany is in addition to your legal rights as a consumer, the sale of goods act is there to protect you from such practice.

as for the spigot bearing, this was a factory recall and would be replaced at cost to maserati if they deemed it noised enoughto be done under their recall, I had 2 done in this process with no issues, I choose to have the cluthc rpleaced at the same time and paid the difference.

but that's not the issue, if you can evidence that the car was having problems within the first 6 months then you probably have a case to get them to fix it, but you have to have evidence with them, so if it went in before the six months that arguably you could challenge that that the vehicle is not fit ofr purpose.

As a trade dealer they are legally bound by the sale of goods act and if you have a strong enough case you will usually win or at least reach a reasonable compromise.

hope this helps, but if you need anything else ping me

Robbie
5/3/2010 10:59:12  
 

Posts: 20
Since: 27/4/2008
Status: offline 		Interesting, I was told on here that the sale of goods act only applied to business sales and not private ones, does anyone know for sure if this is the case? When I contacted Lancaster they did say it was a known fault and Maserati UK should cough up but Maserati UK refused because it was outside the 3 year manufacturers warranty.

I wasn't in the strongest position to pursue it because I had already stayed the night in a hotel waiting for them to sort it out and I needed to get back home.
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