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Recession ... what recession

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7/4/2008 17:05:54  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
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So c'mon you finance guys  out there , whats the real story and  whats round that dreaded  corner, are all the big money companies biting their nails and just hoping and trying to talk themselves out of a recession, how many of you/ colleagues  are thinking that its just a matter of weeks months before the job gets axed , and would the car be first to go  for a mondeo,  just heard on the news  that city office space is at an all time low rental wise and 40% down on last year and that wasn't good either so how bad is it .

What  best to insulate ones self ,  do we all get bikes for the weekdays   and service our own  cars  to keep costs down , do we lads on the tools go back to trades bikes  so we can undercut the poles and albanians ,

Lets get talking the economy up  what do you reckon

Loz


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Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

10/4/2008 2:32:42  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
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No one wants to respond to this one , wonder why , are we all running scared and over extended, surely better  to face whats coming head on , everyday seems to bring out more worse news, and looming crisis, with the brains on here ,whats a   formula for for insulation from it all , lets have some ideas,  views on how worse its going to get, already seeing houses boarded up outside Bedford  reposessions. Is this the tip  of the  precipice.      Do i not come back from my holls 



Regards loz


_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

10/4/2008 5:03:14  

Posts: 555
Since: 9/3/2008
Region: Vikersund, Norway & Ashford, Kent
Status: offline
Maybe we're all a bit like the goverment in that respect, not wanting to think too much about it, if we ignore the danger for long enough it will go away, a bit like using mattresses to stem the amount of water taken onboard by the Titanic.

I did buy a bicycle last week in fact, but it has more to do with losing weight than saving money, although how much use it will get I can't say yet, it's still only done a few hundred yards he he.


< Message edited by Evoluzione -- 10/4/2008 5:04:06 >
10/4/2008 9:38:26  
 

Posts: 145
Since: 23/2/2008
Status: offline
I own a restaurant so we are one of the early indicators, although Warwick is perhaps a little more sheltered than most due to high wealth in the area.

I saw my first real dip in spend in the Restaurant in March - saw 8% growth over last year but have been running at 20%. Early Easter plus running the Times promo (£10 for 3 courses) during March so SHOULD have seen a rise in sales over last year.

Have had 4 years of consisted double-digit growth up to now.

Other indicators - average spend down slightly (2 courses instead of 3). Bottled water sales evaporated (excuse the pun) but much of that is down to Panorama documentary a few weeks back. More house wine sold against the better wines.

I also have a bike but that is because I am cycling 600km from Bangkok to Angkor Wat in a few weeks time to raise cash for our local hospice!

Any donations gratefully accepted!!! www.justgiving.com/malcolmcook

10/4/2008 11:01:30  

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Since: 5/6/2007
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Brave man Malcomb, the surname a pun aswell  (cook restaurant)  im off to my place in  thailand in may ,  its down south tho ,  you better take plenty of puncture outfits  and a tub of tiger balm,  and dont bring back a wife either  they know the british divorce laws better than we do   ,

If it wasn't for interest rates being so low i would of said will be loads worse than in the early nineties , a long down turn we can all stand , and to be honest its needed just to get things back in perspective ,  but there's a gaping great whole in the economy  and i think its gonna open up   and swallow loads , the worry is hardly any bugger is talking about it ,  too many bloody ostriches in governemnt

Wasn't surprised at all today when  on the news and   and some of the papers  said that britain will come out worst . Weve been fuelling on the strength of house prices , too many chavs driving 4x4 on tick or remortgages, and everyones been spending bundles on houses, extentions, revamps  kitchens /bathrooms etc all remortgaged,       it couldn't last forever   a 20% drop in house prices will see loads of lambs to the slaughter and the 2nd hand car market will crash  badly  with inundation . On a lighter note smaller outlays/ service sector and  wining and dining  and entertainment should fair better and weather the storm providing interest rates hold.   Heres hoping,     thats it now ive said the doom and gloom bit  but hey thats the reality.

good luck on the ride

regards loz  


_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

10/4/2008 12:01:13  
 

Posts: 145
Since: 23/2/2008
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Already got a wife so won't be after another one soon - depends on the quality of the massages with a "happy ending" I suppose

Don't think you are too far wrong on the gaping whole theory though. At least interest rates are low - remember when they were 15%+? On the other hand 5% on a £500k debt is a bit more eye-watering than 15% on a £50k debt.
10/4/2008 16:48:48  

Posts: 555
Since: 9/3/2008
Region: Vikersund, Norway & Ashford, Kent
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Bangkok to Angkor Wat? What the devil d' ye mean by that, Angkor Wat is a gentlemans bar just off Sukhumvit Road ain't it damn your impudence?

Seriously though that is very impressive, a real adventure and a most worthy cause, awesome.

11/4/2008 4:24:19  

Posts: 903
Since: 31/10/2006
Region: Salisbury
Status: offline
I think the simple fact is no-one really knows what's going to happen, and they're all trying to predict it with next to no success.  The stock market is usually a good barometer, pricing itself a few months ahead on the collective predictions of the market makers, voodoo essentially.  The intangible sentimentality that drives those predictions has now been exposed as inherently flawed and we have had the most volatile sustained stock market period in ages as a result, while everyone tries to second-guess each other and get's proven wrong!

From a corporate perspective there's a lot of very solid business out there (and hence good value shareholdings), - with M&A activity still strong and happening because the firms buying have cash and aren't over-gearing themselves as they were before the last recession  Ironically the one sector that did over-gear was the banks, but even most of those are still turning profit!!

So if you're invested - hedge your bets, diversify and sit it out.  Once the sentimentality has been driven out and the financial base reset, true value will then be applied to the market.  Just don't do the traditional British thing and panic too late!

Now from a social perspective we have a more uncomfortable position.  The "Socialists" have managed to make the poor and middle-earners much poorer by robbing their legitimate income, and the rich and criminals richer.  And an inherent flaw in our political system means that no long-term planning is made to remedy this.  What is the first indicator of Joe public tightening the purse strings? No, not Restaurants, satellite TV, smoking, new cars or any other superfluous (if pleasurable) expenditure: - Savings and Pension contributions.

Several weeks ago it was reported that Personal Pension contributions were reducing (data recorded over several months) - now you may say that it reflects the market falling but anyone taking advice will know that the best time to be making monthly pension contributions is when the market is on it's knees!! 

Savings have dropped right off too.

So underfunded retirement planning due to the stealthy increase in our cost of living rendering most of us unable to afford it - there's a social scandal that this government won't need to answer to so they do nothing about it.

Now the Property issue is a similar problem, in the grand scheme of things I'll stick my neck out and say that mortgages consume roughly the same amount of income as they always have.  The trouble is tax in one form or another has consumed any margin we had. 

The lack of regulation in the credit business has compounded this problem, due to the high cost of living people borrow at extortionate rates for tat, because they can.  And then they compound it by adding it in to their mortgages at a lower rate but over 25 years (step forward Virgin One Account), thus spending their equity. 

So in twenty years + (maybe sooner) we'll have a generation of folk with no retirement planning and big mortgage balances reaching 65.

I appear to have launched in to a bit of a rambling rant

Being uncharitable I could say you only have yourself to blame if any of these factors is having a dramatic effect on you - the stockmarket involves risk, if you can't afford risk you should avoid it.

If you took out a mortgage you can't afford now, whose advice did you take in the first place? 

Are you spending more than you earn?  Er this one is a bit obvious.

Having said that the Government has a responsibility via education and legislation to safeguard society from itself, which it is singularly failing to do, and the hangover is going to cause even greater economic division in the long run.

Mr Speaker, I would like to propose a vote of no confidence, I'll be in the bar
13/7/2008 4:02:54  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
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Well 3 months on from my last post on this topic ,recession far worse than 1990 and and as my gut feeling at that time  the cards seem to be falling one by one into there respective places , the next 9 months is going to be a real tester, city jobs are starting to get slashed many more shops boarded up  and the buiding/sales and related trades has seen increasing downturns , but still  i havent come across it personally thank god , have talked with colleagues back in my home town on the south coast and many are struggling and undercutting each other, properties in ( gods waiting room Worthing) slashed from £195k to £150k and still not moving.

Havent heard anyone talk of having there holls in uk rather than abroad , so seems there is still plenty of dosh sloshing around in the system , people aren't going to be denied or lower what they consider  to be there own personal standard of living because of government wrecklessness , use of the economy and stratedgies.

So what are your predictions , and when will be the real time to tighten the belts, personally and increasingly  i wanna go and invest in a few 45 gallon  drums  of petrol and diesel.

Any one know the approximate shelf life of petrol, so as to keep the optimum performance out of it , i still get so much enjoyment from the masser i would hate to be denied my weekend pleasure

Regards loz



_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

14/7/2008 5:08:34  

Posts: 903
Since: 31/10/2006
Region: Salisbury
Status: offline
Foreign holidays aren't much more expensive than UK ones Loz, holidays full stop might be a better measure!

And modern petrol has a rubbish shelf-life - tales of Shell Optimax going off in the forecourt tanks are all over the net!

Back to the LPG discussion innit??!!

One other point about the housing market is the number of people who moved when they didn't need to in the past few years, which pushed the number of transactions up artificially when viewed in the long-run.

A client of mine put her house up a few weeks ago with Humberts, (who almost went under the following week!) and she had 7 viewings and three offers all within a fag paper of the asking price. Completed last week.

If you live in a house that looks like half a dozen other ones also on the market then I wouldn't try and sell it now.  If you have something unusual you might just find you have a queue of cash buyers looking to avoid the equity markets.

BTW I'm still in the bar
15/7/2008 11:44:42  

Posts: 173
Since: 18/5/2006
Status: offline
Well from my perspective 8000+ redundancies in the housebuilding sector in the past three weeks isn't going to help!  Planning lags behind in terms of the knock on and we are not massively dependent upon resi but sites are being mothballed all over the place.  Malcolm H are you cashing in on cheap sites?

Seeing it speading into other sectors more recently is worrying but double whammy rising inflation collapsing housing market is a tough one.  Sales dives in retail isn't helping but there still seems to be plenty of cash out there and many sectors as yet unaffected.  Alcohol sales are bouyant I imagine.

As Loz says, next 6-9 months may be telling, if we don't get stabbed first! Is it time to leave the sinking ship do you think, I love this land but living here's getting a bit crap.  Problem is where do you go?   

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MarkC

"Got a match"
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15/7/2008 13:16:46  

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Since: 5/6/2007
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Thailand my friend , is my bolt hole for when all goes pear shaped here, very cheap to live gas at a 1/3 of the price here  and to top it all they drive on the same side as here , been trying to clarify over the last couple of months whether im entitled to import one vehicle from uk into thailand free of duty as and when my permanent residency is granted , then you wont see me for six months of the year for dust thats for sure ,  and thats without the perfect weather  

Regards  

_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

20/7/2008 11:39:03  


Posts: 2135
Since: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MarkC

Malcolm H are you cashing in on cheap sites?



Nope Just waiting and watching at the moment........and doing some contract work to meet the overheads in the meantime!

As a nation we spent 20 years propping up the economy by taking the equity out of our homes and spending!......I think it was Ottar who said the ecomomy can't be supported if all we do is cut each others hair! Not far wrong but do we have enough GDP to prop it all up......Can we afford to be outside a bigger economy??

Just got back from a few days in Northern France staying with friends.......interesting to see that the economy in Northern France hasn't been very strong for years and years and the majority "make just enough" witness the the small holdings and visit the markets, whole families work together to get a little extra cash, not quite hand to mouth but nowhere near as materialistic as we are....they have time for their families and each other and they seem very happy with their lot.......like the fifties and sixties over here perhaps? Lesson one: you can't have your cake and eat it!

By the way we're not in recession yet, technically, but....... Oh and stagflation would be even worse...........



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1/8/2008 14:33:54  
 

Posts: 2
Since: 22/6/2008
Status: offline
Well, being empoyed in the City myself, I see redundancies left, right and centre. A total war of attrition and this is set to continue. An entire business has been wrecked (structured credit) and my own feeling is that this, along with M&A (which in itself was driven by credit in the most part) was the driver behind the huge push higher in house prices in fashionable London. Strucutred Credit itself was the driver behind the securitization of mortgage debt which allowed ludicrous lending standards to flourish.

The balloon was inflated to such a degree (will not bore you with precise metrics) that a heavy fall (a big "splat", I suppose) is the only outcome. the Halifax home price index is forecasting a fall of about 18% over the next 18 months, on top of the recent 10% fall, so we see a reduction in total of 30ish percent by end of 2009. so, in real terms, it seems that this will add up to about a 40% fall. Where does that leave us - oh, with yields on property about equal to the financing rate on property - just where it always is in the long run!! But the trouble is that we are alling from such a great height that we are likely to overshopot this equilibrium position and that is going to be a tough place to end for a lot of people.

There is a however, however!! Equity prices were not expensive going into this, and corporate debt ratios were reasonably low, so this may act as a circuitbreaker for the economy in some manner. But others are arguing that corporates are about to suffer as they eventually have to refinance maturing debt and banks simply are not lending money (mine certainly is not!!) so the rates they will have to pay will be tough and thereby reduce their profitabliliity further.

Well, all things go in cycles and we've had it good for a long time, so let's enjoy the suffering together as that way, it's quite cathartic.

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1/8/2008 16:51:57  
 

Posts: 447
Since: 15/4/2008
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Cor Chucho1! Had to read that a few times to understand it!!
Nice car by the way!!!

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18/9/2008 13:37:46  

Posts: 4164
Since: 5/6/2007
Status: offline
Seems an apt time to rear this posts ugly head  again, another 4 months has gone by and as i predicted and still do worse is still to come, guess most realize that now , ive already battened down the hatches , and fortunately busier than ever , altho i havent  been paid for it all yet , so watch this space in a few weeks time , already on the site im working on    and i wont mention any names  the skip people havent been paid/the silo company wont remove the silo coz they havent been paid ,half the scaffold hasn't been taken down  and the rest is scattered littering the site  coz they havent been paid/ poor sparky contractor  who supplied all materials and 4 subbies hasnt been paid     get the picture ,  wierd times  but nothing that wasn't due  its all about we ve had all  the cream and more  now we gotta drink the sour milk.

To make things worse i just got a call today from a developer/friend  to price 38 flats back down on the south coast to start in feb so someones got some confidence , its like i know things should be bad , all the signs are there  but im still in limbo about it    views appreciated

regards lozcb    

_____________________________

Old pompous spods current stable
52 plate 4200 cc Lowered Tubi's and full GS body kit,steering wheel and rack
55 plate 4200 cc Gransport Full Larini system,AP Racing big brake upgrade ,more stuff pending

18/9/2008 14:19:50  


Posts: 2135
Since: 11/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lozcb


To make things worse i just got a call today from a developer/friend  to price 38 flats back down on the south coast to start in feb so someones got some confidence , its like i know things should be bad , all the signs are there  but im still in limbo about it    views appreciated

regards lozcb    


Apart from the big boys using the opportunity to pay off their social housing obligations, the only building I see around my way at the moment is properties the developers are likely to be able to rent out in the low to medium market range to generate cash flow and the specialist / bijou /elitist market which must be about to take a huge hit with city incomes leading the way into the abyss!

A reflection for Chucko would be if the banks ain't lending what is their future?! The problem is the departure from steady Eddy business into the need for instant gratification (profit).......... 25 year instruments, whilst they can be traded are not able to provide a profit every day! and the desire to aquire the mutuals with their long term values for their "book" and lend 125% on inflated values was just insane...however the slickers may want to wrap it up..just as good as their last deal as it ever was!

Just what is our (UK) economy? This country cannot make ends meet!

Deeeeeepressssssing!





_____________________________

"Maser Malc"!!
4200 Spyder CC
Ghibli ABS
Mercedes ML320
www.essentialimages.co.uk



18/9/2008 15:23:57  

Posts: 2481
Since: 27/1/2008
Region: Bristol
Status: online
I'm sorry to hear about anyone on here loosing a job or struggling to make ends-meet.

For me, I don't earn as much as most and yes I do go a little green when I hear about my friends banking bonus's that could pay for a new 4200 in one go...but I know my wage is there each month, pension is secured by Home Office, 'business' is booming [which I know is a real sad reflection on things], and I can recruit staff with ease.

Things will improve with time, but will we learn?????????
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