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MaseratiForumMaserati Cars3200GT, 4200 Coupe/Spyder, GranSport She's back! but bust again :(

She's back! but bust again :(

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29/9/2007 10:13:20  
 

Posts: 23
Since: 29/6/2007
Status: offline 		 After several thousand pounds, new suspension bits, brake bits, central locking bits, tyres, exhausts and some strange electrical problems our 3200 finally came home.  And now she won't start 

My partner is going nuts and wants to sell up (it is her car!) but I'm reluctant to give in after only three months, in which we've only done about 100 miles! 

So suggestions anyone:  She will start but takes a couple of attempts.  The battery indicator looks normal, cranking sounds OK just no life.  First time of starting up today the RCY light came on and I only had 3rd gear.  Briefly switched off, wrestled her in to life again (car, not my partner) and everything fine.  She just won't start on the first go.  Which she always did before.

Help!  Or I lose my dream car....
29/9/2007 12:05:55  
 

Posts: 94
Since: 20/6/2007
Status: offline 		The crank sensor would stop it starting and it is prone to having the wires fracture which causes intermittent problems.

_____________________________

There is no upper or lower class merely those that have class and those that don't.
29/9/2007 15:52:20  
 

Posts: 123
Since: 20/11/2006
Status: offline 		Hi Yeti
sorry to hear of your problems, you say several thousand pounds you have spent trying to rectify all of the problems, how? I think that you could have put your car with a recognised independant, ie Emblem/Bill Mc graith and asked them to sort the car and it would not have come to half that amount, and you would have a sound car, 7K is a lot of dosh, anyway hope that you get it sorted because a good un is a dream to drive

good luck and hope the Mrs dosn't bash ya

Regards

John
30/9/2007 11:37:41  
 

Posts: 100
Since: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		I know how your patner feels and can sympathise, my 3200 needs a complete new engine due to a crankshaft problem, the price to get it sorted is eye watering so I am selling my 156 GTA and the 3200 ( once it's done ) and buying a new 3.2 Q4 Alfa Brera. I have had my GTA for 5 years and 80k miles and it's been faultless, the 3200 has probably cost me around £15k in the past 3 years on repairs alone.
30/9/2007 11:55:04  
 

Posts: 23
Since: 29/6/2007
Status: offline 		        It cost a bit more because we used genuine parts weher we could - I know that's an expensive option but we weren't paying for this so it wasn't an issue!  Needed rear shockers, new rear swing arm bits, new central locking modules, ABS sensors, I could go on but it's a bit depressing. 

Maybe it could have been done cheaper at Emblem but, unless I've got my geography wrong, he's about 200 miles south of where I am in York so a little impractical.  I've known the guy who's done the work for several years now and he's looked after every other weird car I've had (including a firends Pulsar GTI-R - which only had a Japanese manual available!).  He's found all manner of problems on the car as he's gone on and he's had fantastic support from JCT600 in Leeds.  I think I've just been unlucky in getting what looked like a clean car, with a full service history to back it up, and finding out it hadn't been quite maintained to the standard the history seemed to suggest. 

Interestingly she fired up straight away last night without a single hitch.  I'm too scared to try again today! ;-) She's just contrary, like all women - and Italian women are worse!
30/9/2007 17:26:28  

Posts: 1112
Since: 11/5/2005
Region: Thames Valley
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vulcan1208

I know how your patner feels and can sympathise, my 3200 needs a complete new engine due to a crankshaft problem, the price to get it sorted is eye watering so I am selling my 156 GTA and the 3200 ( once it's done ) and buying a new 3.2 Q4 Alfa Brera. I have had my GTA for 5 years and 80k miles and it's been faultless, the 3200 has probably cost me around £15k in the past 3 years on repairs alone.


Sounds like you've had a raw deal Vulcan.  If you get a bad one they can be a money bit, get a good one and you'll wonder what the point of the boring stuff is!
I love Italian cars, but to be fair the Q4 brera is just a bit pants.  So heavy the performance is all but gone.  It fact it's so slow I'd question why it needs 4wd at all!  The GTA on the other hand is a really good car.  I remember my first go in a 147 GTA it's performance shocked me and the sounds was something else!

_____________________________

Rich
Mercedes-Benz C55 AMG Estate
BMW 335d MSport Touring
Maserati Ghibli "Taylor/Hawksworth Trofeo edition"
1/10/2007 6:05:25  
 

Posts: 100
Since: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		I thought my 3200 was a good one ! and for three years I have been swallowing the costs but a  new engine in a 2002 plate with 58k miles with full main dealer servicing from day one is just a bit too much to bear ( it's going to run into 5 figures ). I agree the Brera is a bit heavy but 147mph is fast enough for me these days and 0-60 time doesn't make that much difference given my pretty average driving skills.
I will be sad to see it go but I always wanted one and I have now fulfilled that ambition.
1/10/2007 6:17:44  

Posts: 777
Since: 20/9/2006
Region: Sheffield
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear this vulcan, Have you tried Eurospares for an exchange engine?

< Message edited by steve -- 1/10/2007 6:36:29 >
1/10/2007 7:41:35  
 

Posts: 100
Since: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks, yes thats where I am getting it but they only have new at the moment so that together with the fitting cost at a specialist and the cost of the investigation work at the main dealer comes to a serious amount of money. Just for information it was a "Crankshaft end float" problem that manifested itself as low oil pressure, intialy it dropped from 5 bar at warm idle to around 3 bar and most recently it fluctuated betwwen 2.5 and 3 bar at idle, I did take it into the garage and they assured me this was "normal" and that there was no problem. It is only when the pressure started to intermittently drop below 2.5 bar that I insisted something was wrong by which time the damage was done ( new block and new crankshaft required ) so if anyones oil pressure starts to drop and the sensor has already been changed ( twice in my case ) beware. Oh and the suggestion that it can be diagnosed by depressing the clutch pedal and watching the pressure is flawed as it made no difference in my case.
1/10/2007 10:12:13  

Posts: 58
Since: 23/9/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: yeti

Maybe it could have been done cheaper at Emblem but, unless I've got my geography wrong, he's about 200 miles south of where I am in York so a little impractical.  ....  I think I've just been unlucky in getting what looked like a clean car, with a full service history to back it up, and finding out it hadn't been quite maintained to the standard the history seemed to suggest. 



As a matter of interest, how do people manage the distances where Emblem are concerned -
I guess everyone doesn't live in Poole, so do you take a day off at service time and enjoy the sea
view for a day - or do they collect within a radius? For a price?

Also, how does this effect inspections. I have been doing nationwide searches - should I limit this
to the SE so that Emblem/McGrath can inspect (from this thread it looks as though you sure need
to!) 



_____________________________

Peter

GTA 3200
911 997 C2S
1/10/2007 10:38:10  

Posts: 777
Since: 20/9/2006
Region: Sheffield
Status: offline 		as yoda says "there is another"

Roberto, Grimaldi Engineering in Halstead, very good guy and knows the cars inside out

http://www.grimaldiengineering.co.uk/

1/10/2007 10:58:39  

Posts: 93
Since: 19/9/2006
Region: Fleet
Status: offline 		This wont help matters but it always seems to be manuals that suffer from end float due to the pressure the clutch puts on the bottom end, Im yet to hear of an auto suffering from the dreaded end float but Im sure someones just about to tell me differently........
1/10/2007 12:49:21  
 

Posts: 575
Since: 29/1/2007
Status: offline 		hi Yeti,

sorry to hear about you having so many problems, but in cases like this I like to remember the sale of goods and services act, if the car has had so many problems in the first 6 months, then it's upto the dealer or seller to prove that the car was not faulty at sale, so if you have only done 100 miles you probably have a good case to get them to stump up for the whole repair bill and not even bother with the warranty. this even applies to 2nd hand cars.

http://www.johnantell.co.uk/SOGASA1982.htm

then seatch "months" but it's in Part 1B, 11M 3.

http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html

I hate to say it, but I've used this reasoning several times with full effect and not had any comeback. so far I've had one car replaced and another covered by the manufacturer for 18 months over the warranty period as I notified them of the faults within 6 months.

most traders rely on people not knowing the law...
1/10/2007 15:25:38  

Posts: 775
Since: 19/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: westbrom

This wont help matters but it always seems to be manuals that suffer from end float due to the pressure the clutch puts on the bottom end, Im yet to hear of an auto suffering from the dreaded end float but Im sure someones just about to tell me differently........
No that's not correct. About 12 months back, Eurospares had actually sold more replacement engines for late model Autos than anything else. Doesn't mean other variants don't suffer of course but autos most definitely do.

Unoffical consensus indicates incorrect grade of oil and/or bad batch of white metalled thrust bearings. The thrust bearing issue only hold water if all failures are late models therefore I would be very interested to know if any early models were affected.

hope this helps  

hope this helps
1/10/2007 16:56:04  

Posts: 93
Since: 19/9/2006
Region: Fleet
Status: offline 		Nigelo, I did a lot of research on the 3200 before I took  the plunge I was pointed in the direction of a company in Ascot called QV motors who service mostly ferraris but also masers. The guy who runs qvs brother worked at Marennellos in Egham during 1999 and he confirmed there were a lot of original cars fitted with replacement engines that year,according to Miles at Emblem the crank was strenghened during the model run. Autos dont put the same amount of pressure on the crank as manuals, so in theory they should last longer.
1/10/2007 19:24:09  

Posts: 775
Since: 19/8/2007
Status: offline 		Interesting but the fact is Autos are definitely affected therefore it is not related to the loading that the clutch pull exerts. Also, many 2001 built cars have been affected. I do not know of any early cars as i said above but I think you will find that quite a few very early engines were swapped out under warranty due to headgasket failure. Those that could be rebuilt, were using modified HGs and a different torquing procedure.  

The cranks did have one supercession however - one each for Auto and Manual but I don't know when this was introduced or indeed why. 

Excessive endfloat manifests itself by worn out white metal facings on the thrust bearings. If the engine is operated at the point where the last of the white metal has disappeared, then the thrust bearing's harder backing will score the crank thrust faces rendering it scrap. White metal is very soft such that you can mark it with your fingernail and is therefore most unlikely to mark the crank before wearing out. I have seen one example where the endfloat was so severe that the crank had started to mill its way through the block but, and here's the rub, it was a much earlier 4.24 6 cylinder biturbo - Different config and entirely different design.  

Some while back on Pistonheads, there were several heated discussions over which engine oil to use in 3200s. Some Main Dealers had allegedly told their customers that if Shell xxx 10/40 was good enough for Ferrari then it was good enough for 3200s too. If that was true, they needed shooting but is the reason for the consensus I outlined above - Apparently, many 3200s were actually serviced that way and MAY be the cause of the many failures we now know about. 

hope this helps

< Message edited by Nigelo -- 1/10/2007 19:26:09 >
3/10/2007 16:29:53  

Posts: 542
Since: 22/7/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry to hear the bad news.
Any evidence that oil type has been an influence in anyone other 3200 end float issue? New thread or poll perhaps?

Been tempted by mobil 1 and sheel oil, but always make a trip over to my alfa dealer. As a consolation I stop in at the Aston and Porsche dealer to let them have a look at a proper GT ;)

_____________________________

rob
alfa 166 3.0V6 Gone
Alfa 166 3.0 V6 Sportomatic
911 3.2 cab
3200GT assetto corsa 40/75
"You only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough." — Joe Louis.
3/10/2007 18:55:41  
 

Posts: 100
Since: 12/9/2007
Status: offline 		Always used Selenia racing, it hadn't even had its first service when I bought it so it's almost certain that it had never had an other type of oil. The brand new engine I just bought was the last one at Eurospares so I hate to think how much it will cost the next person who suffers from the same problem.
If anyone is interested in a 3200 02 plate manual AC ( Rosso Mondial ) with brand new engine drop me a mail.
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